The current version of this theory is here.
Some physicists have argued that a complete universe needs to have two sides — two sides that exist in parallel but are normally invisible (or dark or black) to each other — two sides where the matter operates in the same way, but where stars and planets formed in different patterns. The two sides are different according to "mirror reflection symmetry," where, basically, left and right are reversed on the very small scale of particle physics. The particles on our side (Portland) have "left-handed" interactions, and the particles on the other side (Starboardland) have "right-handed" interactions. This right-handed dark matter is known as mirror matter. In the words of Locke in Episode 1: "... Two sides... One is light... One is dark." Note which hand each stone is in.
Imagine a small, invisible world developed on a dark mirror matter asteroid that crashed into Earth long ago. The island would be a continent on a world "on the other side of Earth," as the producers have hinted. But this chunk of dark matter also contains exotic material that allows the natural formation of wormholes between the two sides. Thus the island connects the light and dark sides of the universe. It's a place of epic conflict and duality. • A tentative idea is that to keep control of this "bridge" neutral, dominance over it continuously cycles between light, faith-based (see Manichaeism), and dark, science-based, factions. So, the themes and details in the show are chosen to reinforce the idea of duality, and meanwhile we're shown just one complete cycle on the island: dark dominance from 1976 to 1992 (ending with the purge) and light dominance from 1992 to 2008, with a return to dark in 2008.
There seems to be a supernatural force that ensures this cyclical change of hands. The force might communicate in the form of figures closely associated with duality (see Jacob Bauthumley, a British shoemaker who wrote "The Light and Dark Sides of God;" and before him perhaps Thoth, Egyptian god of equilibrium, the moon, and the underworld). The light side faction is headed by someone who is born on Earth prematurely to a woman named Emily, moves to the island, and loses his father (e.g., Ben, John); whereas the dark side is represented by someone who is born on the island and moves to Earth (e.g., Hanso, Widmore, Aaron). The representatives are symbolic of the dots in the yin-yang. They're identified and directed by light and dark guides: Alpert and Abaddon (then maybe Walt). • Flight 815 crashed on the September 2004 equinox (when light and dark are balanced) for the sake of delivering Locke and ensuring Aaron's birth on the island; Michael was kept alive to ensure that Aaron would move off the island; and John Locke will play the savior of this little "new world," as suggested by the cross formed by his right eye and the cut he received in the crash.
That's basically all of it. Below is the geeked-out, way-too-much-information version. (Hardcore fans like me need specific answers to everything.) It's not what would be shared directly with the audience. On the show, I think we just need two elements to be explained: (1) the idea of mirror matter or dark matter and (2) a visual like what's above. [Auf Deutsch? Hier — Vielen Dank, simutiger!]
BELOW IS AN ELABORATION ON EVERYTHING — IF YOU WANT IT. This is a "living" document. I welcome your feedback. — Mike
Mirror Matter
"The island is invisible. If you fly over it, you can't see it. Satellites can't take pictures of it." [from a co-creator] Mirror matter (aka shadow matter or Alice matter, after Lewis Carroll's works) is a hypothetical form of dark matter. It's based on a very basic concept in physics. Check out the latest Nobel Prize. Recent theorizing on mirror matter was sparked by work by physicists in Ann Arbor, Michigan (yes, the same place Pierre Chang worked). The key is that "our" matter and mirror matter don't interact all that much, which allows mirror matter to exist in an almost parallel universe, and mirror matter is invisible to the eye (unless the eye is made of mirror matter). But the two sides do "talk" in some ways. Gravity is shared between them, and the electromagnetic force can be felt between them to some extent. Because the two types of matter interact only "weakly" (gravity matters, but there is little friction between the "sides"), the chunk of matter is anchored only loosely near the surface of the earth.
This theory is on some levels inspired by hard science, but it's absolutely science fiction. The one book focused on making mirror matter understandable is by Australian physicist R. Foot. That book seems to be the key source of info for the show. A co-creator made the odd remark that the show would end "just outside the Crab Nebula." On the cover of Foot's book, 'Shadowlands' (the name for the mirror matter side of the universe) is placed, almost amazingly, just outside the Crab Nebula. That is, it might just be an artful way of saying the show ends on the island. (Note, however, that for C.S. Lewis, the Shadowlands would probably correspond to Earth, and the island to Heaven or Narnia.) And that huge foot... Paying homage?
A potential reference to parity inversion (matter to mirror matter and vice-versa). Swap West for East and you get the location of the wreckage instead of the location of the plane's disappearance. [Thanks, Jason!] More here. The idea is that the location of the wreckage is ridiculously far off because it sets up an Easter egg.The Moon
The idea is that the little moon — a very tiny planet if you're more comfortable — has only ocean, the island, and the little island with the Hydra station. That's it. Juliet: "So they have a boat — sailing in circles will keep them busy." A dark matter moon also gives a reason for Apollo Bars made of dark chocolate, "Dark Territory," and "Black Rock," which is ultimately what the island is. The sun in the sky? It would be Nemesis or another mirror matter star at roughly the same location as our sun. In fact, there's a video by Speaker (a LOST insider) that features a dark sun.
The electromagnetic fields of the moon would necessarily be different from those of Earth. It's long been thought in pseudo-science circles that magnetic fields have healing powers (remember the guy Isaac that Rose visited in Australia?). The field might also explain the birth problems. For example, fetuses might develop too fast for the womb to manage, making the the fetus more and more unrecognizable to the mother's body. Another possibility is that only potential representatives of the dark side can be born on the island. To continue with the science-inspired fiction, near limitless energy could come from a matter–mirror matter heat engine.
DHARMA Initiative
DHARk MAtter Initiative? (might be a stretch) But the DHARMA logo -- an inverted version of the "Inner-World"/"Later Heaven" arrangement of the Bagua -- fits well. The center of the Bagua (which has been replaced in every DHARMA logo) is the yin-yang, perhaps the most universally known symbol of opposing, yet complementary, light (yang) and dark (yin) elements.
DHARMA's mission was to exploit the island to try to address the Valenzetti equation. From a broader perspective, DHARMA represented dominance of the "dark" side, presumably reigning from 1976 to 1992, based on the speculative 3.2-decade cycle. A chief aim of DHARMA was to tap the underground pocket(s) of exotic matter for the sake of manipulating time. The button-pushing in the Swan and vaccine reflected an effort to manage a leak after drilling into the material. The Looking Glass "controls communications between one world—the world of the island—and the mainland." Any DHARMA stations on Earth should be at sites that also have deposits of dark matter (impact or deposit sites) and/or the exotic matter that permits wormholes. The Namaste gesture symbolizes a peaceful meeting of the left and right hands. However, as Ben said, "one side had to go, one side had to be purged."
Through the Looking-Glass Via Little Wormholes
Wormholes were originally thought to let you pass into a mirror universe. The ideas are not really the same, but let's run with it. Plus, Lewis Carroll used an early version of the concept when devising his "looking-glass" world. I'm not thinking of big swirling tubes, but rather windows. Passing through one of them flips matter to mirror matter or vice-versa.Some wormholes bridge different moments in on-island and off-island time. Hence, a different angle of entry or exit can deposit you in the past or future. This could explain the time-shifts when people, objects, and transmissions enter or exit on a random bearing. And a failure to find an angle that directs you through a wormhole means you're stuck (like Desmond trying to leave on his boat). The arrangement is the messy result of wormholes being created on their own, naturally. Check out the Kerr metric (on Daniel's backboard) for what might be inspiration. It's like a spacecraft entering the Earth's atmosphere. If you enter the atmosphere at too steep an angle, you'll burn up; if you enter it [at] too shallow an angle you'll bounce off and back into space. And I think that that analogy is a good one for how you have to get on or off the island. [from the producers]
Movement and World Mythology
Previously, this theory had a very involved description of the moon in constant orbit through the interior of Earth. I think it's pretty clear now that the machine attached to the wheel uses the exotic matter to increase the radius of a wormhole large enough for the entire landmass to slip through. Presumably the moon was originally situated in parallel to the earth's surface near Egypt (explaining the hieroglyphs, and serving as the inspiration for Duat, the Egyptian underworld). Once ancient civilizations discovered that it could be moved, it was moved about Earth, serving as the inspiration for Atlantis, Lemuria, the invisible island that was the birth place of Apollo, Tartarus, and so on. The movement can explain how the island can collect people and objects from locations around the earth, like the small drug plane, the Black Rock, Desmond, Flight 815, etc. Prior to the (symbolic) wheel-turn, it was somewhere east of Fiji.Smoke Monster — Mirror Monster / Death-Spirit of the Darkness
In short, it's a life-form that developed on this little world while humans developed on Earth. And, running with the theme, it mirrors. It explores and learns, building a repertoire of behaviors, sounds, and appearances that mimic what it experiences. Because it evolved on a world with a dominant electromagnetic field, it perceives electromagnetic fields. Hence, it mimics the shape of the fields it encounters and is at home among the rich sources of electromagnetism in the core of the island. From a faith perspective, the monster corresponds to Cerberus, or death-spirit of Erebus, the god of darkness and shadows, and Ammit, the Egyptian monster/goddess who devours sinners who enter the underworld. Or, rather, early human contact with the creature was the inspiration for Cerberus and global dog/serpent-related mythology. [Previous monster explanation is here]
More on the Mythology and Supernatural Elements
A new piece of speculation is that the island—the nexus between the two sides of the universe—remains neutral by a shift between light and dark dominance every 16 years. Thus the cycle completes and repeats every 3.2 decades. Jack thought that "Adam and Eve" died without trauma to their bones and were laid to rest in the caves 40 to 50 years ago, which could have corresponded to a "purge" of the "dark" (science) side that occurred in 1960, and would make them candidates for Widmore's parents. Likewise, Alvar Hanso, the apparently un-aging great grandson of the captain of the Black Rock, may have been born on the island, only to leave and later become a leader of the dark side (which certainly seems to have been the case during DHARMA's reign). 
A prediction is that in 2008 some grand event will mark the subjugation or purging of the light side (see the Spider Protocol) and the ascension of the dark faction (see the reconstitution of DHARMA). Until then (and perhaps always), Jacob will try to steer the "pieces" by communicating from the spiritual realm through apparitions. Before we saw "Christian" speak to John in the cabin, we were only shown fleeting glimpses of the left eye or left-hand side of people in the cabin. That seemed to suggest Jacob might be a psychic (Ben said Jacob "is a man who summons you;" Richard Malkin?) communicating from (left-handed) Earth. [Thanks to jcarlson34 for some related thoughts] The shoe color of the apparitions might give away which side they're supporting or the side of their death (seems consistent so far; black for island death, white for Earth death; Andyo_uk also makes a decent argument for an unusual obsession with shoes in the comments).
From a "science" standpoint, the freaky supernatural stuff is due to an ability to manipulate the electromagnetic force. People who are "special" in the psychic sense are attuned to electromagnetism and are able to see events on the island or do "psychic things" on the island because of it. The crashing birds, for example, are likely a result of Walt changing the EM field around himself. (Many migratory birds rely on EM fields for geomagnetic navigation.)In agreement with mind/body dualism, the whispers seem to be disembodied souls.
Finally, Ben Linus was supposed to be on the right-handed "moon" as an agent of faith because because Benjamin means "son of the right hand" and Linus was a son of Apollo (god of light and name of the moon program.)
Appreciation of One's Duality is Central to Character Development
Producer Carlton Cuse: We are interested in exploring how good and evil can be embodied in the same characters and the struggles we all have to overcome the dark parts of our souls. It's as though the island forces you to look at your true self in the mirror. [Thanks to poster HearingVoices for communicating this with elegant clarity.] The characters are forced to confront their inner demons. Examples: Hurley and his food, hallucinations, and belief he is cursed; Jack and his failure to be a great man by the standards of his father; Sawyer dealing with "Sawyer;" Boone acknowledging his love for Shannon; Desmond and Charlie and their sense of worthlessness; etc.Locke, interestingly, gave up his left kidney, and then had it murdered by Sawyer. Later on, this "left side" sacrifice saved him from death when he was shot.
Wrap-Up
LOST begins with an opening right eye. [Thanks to blacklodge for pointing this out] Will it end with an opening left eye back on Earth or a closing right eye when the island is destroyed? Or absolutely neither? After all, this is just a proposal. It could be 100% wrong.How is this so detailed? I've been tweaking it now and then for over a year, and I get great help. I owe a great debt to posters on The Fuselage and DarkUFO, the commenters on this blog, and people whose commentary on this theory I've unwittingly and happily run across on the Web. They have, at the minimum, given these ideas some resonance and offered amazing and intelligent feedback. Thanks for reading.
P.S. — I can't help but recommend an excellent and different theory based on mirror matter by Big Mouth.
Further Evidence for Mirror Matter
If you're a fan of the show, you've surely seen a billion references to mirrors, reversals, inversions, and Alice in Wonderland (mirror matter is also known as Alice matter, in reference to Lewis Carroll's works)...- Backward speech, rabbits, chess games
- Episodes entitled "White Rabbit" and "Through the Looking Glass"
- Jack reads to Aaron from "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland"
- Charlie crosses with the wrong hand (left instead of right) in the Looking Glass
Ana Lucia's shirt is white before the crash (when presumably on the "light side") and mysteriously changes to black after the crash (when presumably on the "dark side") [Thanks to jane_eris and others for catching this]- Aside from Hurley crashing into an arrangement of mirrors and hallucinating that Charlie broke through a one-way mirror in the police station, mirrors were used as semi-prominent props in Season 4: Ben used a signaling mirror, and Jack insisted Kate hold a mirror to let him view his appendectomy
Beyond the Show Proper:- "Bad Twin," the book by Gary Troupe in the Lost Experience includes two twin brothers who are identical except for their handedness (regular handedness, but also the direction in which their hair curls, etc.). Matter and mirror matter are identical except for their handedness (left-handed corresponding to "our" matter, right-handed to mirror matter). [Thanks to Konstantin for bringing this nearly perfect potential Easter egg to my attention.]
In a broadcast by DJ Dan, there was a taped interview with a student working on a project, apparently for the Widmore Corporation (likely responsible for the people on the freighter):- Interviewer: "So, uh, then what are the possible applications of this research?
- Student: "Pretty much, we were asked to simulate an electromagnetic pulse strong enough to knock a space-borne body out of its recurring orbit."
Interviewer: "Uh, space-borne body. Like what, exactly?"- Student: "Like the moon."
- [Transcript courtesy of Lostpedia]
- The Whitman poem in the online game leading up to Season 4 is poem # 180 in "Leaves of Grass."
The Compass logo for the Maxwell Group has left and right (East and West) reversed. Reversals of left and right along a mid-line are arguably the allusions most specific to mirror reflection symmetry in the show.- Svalbard? The only connection to Svalbard in recent memory is "His Dark Materials" [Thanks to tdciago for pointing this out]
More:
- The constellations have been edited. For example, the Big Dipper has had two stars removed. What better way to suggest that constellations are mirror matter constellations and not our own. [Credit to poster jane_eris and others] And, while Carl and Alex could make up names for the constellations, it's more compelling to make up names when the constellations really need to be named.
The species are different, as noted by Arzt. Sure, the EM field might contribute to this; but whenever someone speculates about mirror matter worlds they mention how the species would be different.- Mikhail has only one eye. Here's part of R. Foot's description of Miros, a fictitious mirror matter world:
- "Miros is a planet made of mirror matter — atoms composed of mirror electrons and mirror protons and mirror neutrons. Miros is somewhat different from Earth though. It's a bit smaller with deeper oceans, but there is life on Miros. The people of Miros are a bit strange, they have very large feet and only have one eye ... Thus, Miros isn't much like Earth which just illustrates that microscopic symmetry of particle interactions does not translate into a macroscopic symmetry."
- The "Hatch Painting" in the Swan depicted: (1) a light female figure above/behind the water and a dark male figure in the water (a normal Penny and inverted Desmond?), (2) A collection of right-side-up stick figures above the waves and upside-down figures below the waves, (3) a trajectory that corkscrews to the right (like a diagram for a right-handed, mirror matter particle) apparently representing Des' path as he fell from the boat, (4) houses beneath the waves, (5) a moonlit night above the waves and a sunlit day beneath the waves. Is that meant to be Ayers Rock in the upper left?
- Boone — not a philosopher, but the BooNE experiment(s) at Fermilab regarding dark matter
The Large Hadron Collider (referenced by the producers) is mentioned in Foot's book regarding research into mirror matter, as is aurora australus (which was seen in the online game preceding Season 4)- Part of the summary of "Valis" from Philip K. Dick's site: "an ancient, mechanical intelligence orbiting Earth..." More here.
Damon Lindelof: If an island is defined by land mass surrounded by water, they are on an island. Carlton Cuse: Right. That's good. DL: Right. CC: Yeah, I don't think we should say anything more than that. DL: Yes, that's how that's... CC: That's right. DL: This is about definitive answers. We have defined the term 'island'. We have confirmed that they are in fact on one. CC: And it's surrounded by water. DL: It is. CC: But everything beyond that is kind of up for grabs. [from the producers; thanks to Mark and Lostpedia] What's great about those worlds [Narnia, Oz, and Wonderland] is they're all worlds on the other side of Earth. That is to say they're not fantasy realms like in Star Wars. Narnia is actually connected to the world that we know and so is Oz, as is Wonderland... as is our island. (gasp) ... I think that's a pretty good place to stop [the podcast]. There's no where to go from here. It aint a good place to start. Malkin, the psychic: Every day I meet people lookin' for a miracle, desperate to find one. But there are none to be had. Carlton Cuse: ... from Marvelo815: "So I was thinking… Does the island move? How does Eko's short range plane … go from Africa to somewhere near Australia? Maybe the island is forever moving..." |
Where is everything? Some ideas...
Any actual facility near Portland (Mittelos or DHARMA) is close to Beacon Rock — which is exactly 32 miles from Portland (on Google Earth) (45° 37' 40" N, 122° 1' 16" W). In fact, it makes some sense that Ben was born near the monolith, with Goodspeed driving east from Portland on 84 or 14. I wouldn't be too surprised to see the sub teleporting from the river. What's especially intriguing is that the place Ben popped out in the desert is potentially exactly 90° (5400 nautical miles) from Portland/Beacon Rock. The antipode of that spot in Tunisia (where the island could have been in the Pacific, also 90° from Portland) is so positioned that leaving it at a bearing of ~305° sets you on a path 90° counterclockwise from a path that would get you to Portland. In other words, if Portland were located at the North Pole, leaving that Pacific location at ~305 would set you out on a path around the Earth's (new) equator. Finally, a bearing of 325° from that location points you to Fiji.
This screencap shows what could be that special Pacific location beneath the 'D', and also the new DHARMA logo on the Apple II. [Thanks Rybone :) ] So it seems pretty clear that the station for determining access to the island is in LA and that antipodes are meaningful.Those chalked locations might indicate seismic hotspots, suggesting the island's location might be associated with seismic activity. [Relevant thread by BlackLotus] East of LA would seem to be a relevant place to be (where fault lines converge).
My guess is that the station is used to track gravitational or electromagnetic disturbances, much like the arctic station that was used to locate the island when Desmond turned the key.
If the drug plane teleported from Nigeria, it might have been right over Zuma Rock (9° 7' 50" N, 7°14' 1" E). Its antipode is very close to the location 815 would've disappeared from radar.
Just generally (outside of this theory), the connection between a/the safe bearing and time is fascinating. Perhaps it changes as a function of astronomical alignment (e.g., where the Earth is with respect to the Sun). Or maybe, if the island shifts geographical location over time, it always points toward the same location on Earth.One Season 5 Scenario that Fits with the Theory
The primary purpose of the time-jumping characters is to illustrate the long (preferably cyclical) timeline of the island.
We'll see that 1976-1992 mirrors 1992-2008. Events will recur with different players. Ideally, the "side" of the characters in the recurring events will be flipped, such that characters of faith and science will reverse roles.
These paralleled events might occur:
Locke arrives dead and is resurrected (black suit, what color shoes?)
Christian arrives dead and is resurrected (black suit, white shoes)
A nuclear bomb? controlled by Richard places the island in peril
Mercenaries controlled by Widmore place the island in peril
Jack or Widmore turns the wheel counter-clockwise on advice from Locke (maybe fixing the time problems)
Ben turns the wheel clockwise on advice from Christian (causing the time problems)
The Causal Paradox of the Crash
It now seems fairly likely that Jack (and maybe the others in the O6) will return to the island in the past, only to effect a series of events that will lead to the crash of 815. No endless loops, no do-overs, no parallel timelines; just a paradox that must be avoided.
My guess is that Jack will create the problem in the Swan that spurs the button-pushing regimen (with the associated build-up of magnetism when the button is not pushed). That will enable and lead to the crash. The departure of the Oceanic 6 was a complication. But fate will ultimately ensure their return.
Funny how that kind of puzzle might constitute the show, yet I care so much more about what the island is.
Of course, this might be just one chapter in the island's history.
Running Commentary
Ah, Widmore... He clearly was a big backer of science later, but earlier, he was an Other. So what pissed him off? Were he and Abaddon just helping destiny along by delivering the science team to the island in 2004?
Why try to create a causality-busting consciousness-time-traveler through Daniel (like Desmond)? Does he believe that's the only ticket to changing the past in his favor?
The 3.2 decade cycle will definitely need to remain tentative. We have faith-based protectors and science-based exploiters. Maybe that simple conflict is the whole deal (assuming there is something epic about it).
What's the deal with reincarnation? The words on the van driven by Ben are an anagram of 'reincarnation'. Likewise, the producers mentioned in a podcast that the hieroglyphs in the wheel cave also regard reincarnation. Further, the Little Prince must die to return to his little home asteroid/planet.If Locke is returning in a casket, maybe on a plane, maybe with white shoes, did Christian turn the wheel earlier? Perhaps in '56 or '72? The island could very well be a home for the dead; but why return as a corpse wearing white shoes? Does that give you extra special clout in the cabin?
Thoughts after "This Place Is Death"
So Ben's an impostor. Anyone too shocked? My hunch is that there was in fact a wheel-turn during or right after the purge. Ben assumed control immediately afterward, just as John did. But when did John adjust/turn the wheel? Right after Ben did? In the past or future? That date has implications for whether or not there is a periodic timeline on the island.
Hawking's mention in the preview of windows suggests to me that the island might only be accessible via wormholes (in the island's vicinity or perhaps from afar, antipodal or not). That reinforces my hunch that the island is in fact not on Earth proper, but instead exists in parallel to it, on/in Earth's surface. The producers have suggested that planes can in fact fly over the island; they just can't see it, because it's invisible.
Maybe the Lamp-Post shows the way to the Shadowlands. For C.S. Lewis, the Shadowlands = Earth. Here (for Foot), the Shadowlands = the world of shadow matter (aka mirror matter).I've made slight updates to the Intro, Movement, and Monster sections to add in connections to Egyptian mythology, namely Thoth as a "spokesform" preceding Jacob B., Duat as another underworld that the island inspired, and Ammit as another mythical creature the monster embodies. Ma'at is a feminine counterpart to Thoth; but I do tend to associate violence with us guys... ;) so we'll stick with Thoth.
This wiki on Ma'at captures most of the Egyptian info I've added.Note the 42 Negative Confessions, which are associated with 42 gods, and the Hall of Two Truths (cough, Temple, cough).
In short, Island = Egyptian underworld? (nothing too new there, just more plausible)
Thoughts on 316
Well, I'll be... It is always moving (though apparently unpredictably). I'll need to revert the movement section a bit.
Getting on it apparently means intercepting it.
Is it gliding around the surface of the earth, orbiting wildly within it, or frequently jumping to different geographical locations?
Maybe Earth's curst is too dense to penetrate.
PLEASE NOTE: This is a new blog post. Your wonderful comments are here (the just-prior version) and here (an even earlier version).
168 comments:
In case you're a regular reader, I've retooled this to keep the island stationary (as opposed to being in constant motion). We finally saw a boat (the Zodiac) move between the beach and freighter.
I've also adopted the mirror life-form alternative. The movement and monster were intimately tied, so a change in one requires a change in the other.
By definition, letting the show drive the theory makes the theory stronger (and, finally, a bit shorter).
Wow. Still awesome. In fact, better.
Mark
Yes. This kicks all kinds of butt!!!
It's the reigning heavyweight contender.
You ever get contacted by the Lost crew (writers)?
Christine
This is going to start all kinds of talk around the office. Thanks.
"In fact, provided wormholes don't allow water or matter to "seep in," the moon could actually be anywhere inside of the earth."
This would explain how the plane could have crashed in the water on Earth/left-hand universe, but broken up in the air in the Right-hand/Island universe. The plane at the bottom of the ocean would not, then, have to have been "planted" by Whitmore.
Yeah! One of the first ones to see this. Best theory I've read!
Mark —
Thanks. I'm happy to hear you think it's improved.
Christine —
Thanks for the vote of confidence. This is just fragile speculation. No emails from the "crew."
Anonymous —
Thanks. Have fun.
Adam —
I have to admit one of my favorite ideas is that the plane broke up like it did because it was simultaneously underwater and in the air. The debris seemed to rain down, rather gently, in a way that mimicked the Titanic.
So I love your idea! But then we'd have to go against the grain of the story of the planted wreckage and the producers suggesting the plane broke apart because of the Swan's discharge/field. If the plane were duplicated somehow... Maybe... That was a popular idea a while ago... Your idea will be in back of my mind until we know what's up with greater certainty.
Anonymous —
Thanks. I can't really say you're among the first. But, welcome!
Mike
Hey, did you ever watch the ATAS 2007 event with the Lost producers and actors? In that panel discussion, Lindelof (accidentally) slips a MAJOR fact about the show, that confirms your theory: "... when you make course corrections like that that doesn't change the fact that the island is a big space ship."
It's really funny to see his head go red after that and (for the rest of the discussion) holding his hand in front of his mouth and looking really shocked. You see Carlton look kinda "astonished" over to him and Abrams shaking his head full of surprise! LOL... I couldn't believe he just said that (but it really didn't sound like a joke, more like a BIG accident of his)
See for yourself (if you haven't already): http://youtube.com/watch?v=Fi2Ur_PiiRo&feature=related -- skip to 4:35!
just watched that video and noticed someone says "its like a hall of mirrors" right after the stuff about the big space ship!
nice find!
On Earth, John is a Farmer...on the island John is a Hunter...relevant?
Hey Mike,
What if the island moves in time and not just space?
J
Well what can I say!?
You have given this a lot of thought and it seems to make a whole lot of sense!
I can't wait to see how the series unfolds and to see if your theories are correct!
If they are I have a feeling the Lost writers will be giving you a phone call sometime soon!
Dave and anonymous —
Thanks! Damon's response to that question about movement seems to have born fruit. So, who knows!
anonymous —
Thanks. People have drawn really nice comparisons between off-island and on-island. I think you make a similar point. Do you think that's a reversal of roles? He's certainly gone from worthless to super-important...
J —
If they move the island in space and time, they'd be heading off the cliff into "the island is a little planet that acts like a space-time ship" land.
I think the little planet idea would still hold — you can't move an island without moving the land mass it's attached to (and that land mass would have to be separate from Earth).
The mirror matter idea might hold too — you can't move a mass through Earth too easily unless the two are only weakly connected.
Whatever they do, it should be fun, provided they don't "jump the shark" in the plausibility department.
Emily —
Thanks. The writers have a way of completely flipping reality on us, so who knows. This whole idea could be completely silly after we see the finale.
Mike
So I just read the spoiler info on DarkUFO's site.
I'll just say, "Are you f%$king kidding me?!"
I'm hoping a certain plot device is not as utterly, ridiculously lame as it sounds.
Hint: Rambaldi was a deus ex machina, not an explanation. You're walking a fine line people in Burbank... :(
I won't share anything — check it out if you like — but there are some pluses and some definite "how the F can that be explained by anything remotely based in science" elements.
Here's hoping they taped multiple versions to avoid repeating last year's spoiling of the finale.
Hey Mike –
Love your revisions. Particularly the fixed location of the moon is a great addition. A couple of thoughts. I was thinking about how the bearing given to Michael at the end of season 2 was different than the one used to travel to and from the freighter. (325 vs. 305) My thought is that the island is already moving in both space and time. That is, it already physically moves in space very slowly as it moves forward in time in sync with Earth. It crawls kind of like a glacier. If this were true, the required navigational bearing to enter the island could naturally change over time - in this case it moved from 325 to 305 in about one month.
However, I think the proportion of space to time for the moon’s movement in space/time is not necessarily unchangeable, and that is what the Orchid and Swan stations were designed to test. This led to the rabbit time travel experiments. After the “accident,” which was probably some dangerous change to the magnetic forces that stabilize the moon in space/time, those tests were halted and the Swan station’s sole purpose became keeping the space/time proportions in sync with Earth – hence the use of Earth’s Valenzetti equation constants in the Swan computer.
I think the strange time dilation effect that takes place when you cross is directly related to the destruction of the Swan station. The space/time proportion is in very slight flux now. Which is why Daniel Faraday was surprised by the results of his rocket test – all of his own modeling on the island predicted where it would be in space-time assuming the Swan station was functioning properly.
Given all of this, in order for Locke to move the island's physical location in space to hide it, I think he will have to propel it forward in time as well. Basically speeding up its normal progression along its very slow rotational orbit. I think this could explain how Ben has to curiously ask what year it was when he arrives in Tunisia. I think maybe he will "travel" off the island shortly after Locke "moves" the moon to Tunisia, but the entire island had already been sped into the future.
Does this mesh with your current theory?
Marc
Marc —
What cool thoughts! Now watch me fail to do them justice... ;)
I really like your idea of the island "crawling" very slowly, and hence the shift in bearings. Initially, I thought the bearings might have shifted Michael in time (and caused his inability to die), but now it seems everyone (Jack, Ben, Widmore, Michael) can't die until the island is "finished" with them. (This show really is insane.) So the bearings simply being different at the time (because of slow movement) sounds pretty good!
A guy who posts as HE Pennypacker raised the idea of the Swan failsafe halting the movement of the land mass. Perhaps the Swan contributed to the shift in coordinates by shifting the land mass, slowing it, or something similar. I love your idea of Daniel assuming the Swan was operational...
I guess the big picture that we're driving at is how the island's Casimir effect could allow the island to shift through space-time, or at least warp it/bend it. More specifically, are there rules (that make sense) governing how the island can move about?
I think a sort of Casimir / wormhole "interface" between what I consider the island land mass and Earth could explain the time fluctuations coming and going.
If the whole island land mass jumps instantaneously through time and space, then I think we're dealing with some wacky teleportation, as opposed to your very cool notion of altering the "speed" of the orbit.
And if that happens, frankly, I'll seriously pursue the idea that they're on a manufactured planet / spaceship designed to move by teleporting in spacetime (something f'd up enough to match the show ;) ).
Mike
I missed a couple of comments in the transition to the new page. My apologies.
Anonymous (May 16 at 3:33) —
The Black Rock is from Portsmouth! What a great find. I totally missed that. It's definitely something to add in the increasingly-neglected "Further Evidence" section.
All of these references must be to emphasize 'port', either for portholes or left-handedness.
Lisa —
You were asking us for thoughts on Hurley and his visitations...
To me, that stuff is still a big mystery. I think he might be "crazy" in the mental patient sense, but I think the apparitions and his ability to see them are real. People do have "mental breakdowns" when they experience something horrendous, which Hurley did with the collapsing deck.
The best I can offer right now is that they seem to be making an effort to show us that if a body is on the island, that person might appear as a ghost... or at least be "possess-able" by Jacob, or maybe a psychic. But, Ben's mom, for example, was probably buried on Earth, which just confuses me. ;) Where did her apparition come from?
Any guesses on your end?
Mike
Hey Mike ... back again ... and sorry if this has already been mentioned .. sure it will have been:
Just been mooching round the web on a Lost mystery tour ... trying to figure out some of the Wizard of Oz references from the show. I started off on a man behind the curtain 'smoke and mirrors' goose chase as these are obviously two major themes running through episodes, and ended up thinking I was really on to something new that would add some spice to your theory ... only to discover that Damon and Carlton had actually already jokingly referenced it in a podcast in 2006 ... D'oh !
Anyways .. that age old rumour regarding the Wizard of Oz movie and the denied discovery that it was synchronized with Pink Floyd's .. Dark Side Of The Moon!!!
mike -
hunter/farmer was referenced in a way that indicated your either one or the other...seemingly diametrically opposed...so I see it as on the island John is the mirror of himself.
Wow... this theory is stunning in terms of its plausability. I look forward to seeing how its revised as the show continues. It certainly seems very close at the moment.
Per your disgust with the "chilling" mechanism in the spoiler, I suggest that whatever/whomever "powers" space/time travel is so far beyond our comprehension that the "chilling mechanism" is no less an incomprehensible explanation than the quantum explanations our science has posited to date. In otherwords we are about as close to explaining the truth of space/time travel as was prehistoric man when he discovered the wheel---there remains an incomprehensible amount of scientific terrain to bridge. I do think there is an explanation found in nature like your theory, and I sincerely hope LOST does not become STARGATE: The Island. But as you suggested, "the idea that they're on a manufactured planet / spaceship designed to move by teleporting in spacetime (something f'd up enough to match the show ;) )" could very well be where they're headed :(
Mirror Matter Disciple
Mike,
So to get this straight, would the chunk of mirror matter reattach where the electromagnetism is really high, like Ayer's Rock?
Bill
BTW, I've read some compelling theories. This one is at the top for me.
AndyO —
I've heard that rumor before... Then again, I've heard that rumor about a lot of shows. I think Dark Side of the Moon synchronizes with ANY show if you're stoned. lol. Still, it would be quite the find if it really does. :)
Anonymous —
Thanks for the clarification. Yeah, I think you can make a convincing argument that Locke is now a hunter for the sake of showing a diametric contrast to a farmer. In fact, Locke has most certainly "flipped" on the island, so I think your point is a strong one.
Anonymous —
Thanks.
MMD —
Without overtly spoiling anything...
The temperature issue, I don't mind. I don't think there's a particle accelerator buried in the island, but collision experiments do require serious temperature control, so there's a precedent of sorts for it.
What definitely would be cheesy, though, of course, is the wacky prop and the possibility of the island traversing a wormhole (or something similar).
The show is clearly outside the bounds of science, but, obviously, the point of this whole theory is to try to tie some of the key pieces to something a physicist might fantasize about.
Plus, I've already read "Sphere." If Lost is Sphere with a "planet ship," well, it will just be "Sphere" with a twist, won't it?
Ultimately though, a moving island still points to a little planet that's somehow embedded in Earth...
Bill —
Thanks. You read my mind. The producers have said that certain places on Earth, like Ayers Rock and the spot in Tunisia will matter. Then, of course, there's the plate boundary (Sunda) where the wreckage was found, a boundary that runs next to Portland, and another one that runs near where the plane could have crashed near Fiji.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/Tectonic_plates.png
http://www.johomaps.com/world/worldtecton.html
The latter shows a boundary running right through Tunisia (which is probably less accurate, but better matches the show).
Given that the island appears to be able to move, I'm leaning toward "attachment" spots over locations or portholes, as wacky as that sounds. (Besides, finding one of several portholes at fixed locations would seem much easier than finding an island that moves.)
Mike
Hey everyone.
If you think Lindelof slipped with his comment about the "spaceship" you're mistaken.
He did it deliberately. For one thing, he's a Star Trek fan and there is an episode from the original series where a planet is actually a spaceship.
And secondly, do you honestly think he would slip and jeopardize the show, the cast, the crew, the studio, and all the others who make a living off of Lost?
And do you think he would do that to his loyal fans?
His comment was a red herring.
best theory so far by miles
anonymous —
Oh for sure. It probably was a joke. We're just reading tea leaves. I will agree, however, that Cuse and Abrams looked a bit perplexed for a moment.
anonymous —
Thanks.
Mike, I'm with you. Islands can't move. Unless they're moving along with a little "planet".
Bravo, this seriously rocks!
The premise fits so perfectly. It can no doubt "evolve" to explain the more "creative" (politely put) aspects of the show. Dark matter = mysterious = license for bizarre fictional elements like living dead.
Actually, did you notice how on the chalkboard picts you embedded, the "w" is inverted on opposite sides of the y axis? It says "_m" on the -a side, and "w-" on the "a" side! Brilliant!
Apologies for the punctuation!!!
Will
anonymous —
I wouldn't put anything past the writers, but, yes, I think a common sense argument can be made that islands can't detach from the land beneath them and travel elsewhere.
Will —
Thanks. I stared at the illustrations quite a bit. The inverted character is a great catch.
Check out these screenshots from a contributor at DarkUFO: 1 2 3
The left-hand sides are labeled "HERE" and "NOW" whereas the right-hand sides are labeled "THERE" and "THEN," respectively.
HERE and THERE are obviously a nice match to this theory, but the temporal labels are curious too. Could they point to transformation occurring with passage through a wormhole (hence a time shift)? Or something else entirely (presumably related to particle behavior near a singularity)?
Mike
Wow this is some killer stuff!
If this isn't the LOST story, they should seriously consider changing it ;)
Wow man, now I'm a believer!
Looks like the island could have simply moved in space, like your theory says is the simplest way. See the ripple? Like it just sunk down really quickly and effortlessly.
What did Ben say?
It's dark, very dark?
I'm blown away!
Rob
Dude!!!
I don't think anything else can work at this point except this theory...
'Game Over'?!
Well, I guess we can stop watching now :)
Yeah, you just think I'm being facetious!
(It looks like the bodies on the moon get special powers is about right too.)
I've enjoyed reading this very much!
I believe this to be one of the best explanations yet about the island.
Also i would like to add the following;
In the pilot opening scene (Jack wakes up -closeup of his left eye opening- on the island), jack finds a bottle of wodka in his right pocket. Quoted from your page: Character development — "We are interested in exploring how good and evil can be embodied in the same characters and the struggles we all have to overcome the dark parts of our souls"
Could the alcohol in the right pocket be related to this? Or is this too far fetched..
Anyway keep up the great work!
yc, Tim.
Anonymous —
Thanks. I keep pushing it, but check out the Kerr metric... could be the show right there.
Rob —
Thanks. We're definitely dealing with a chunk of exotic matter. I wonder if that's it, or the endless light/dark references point to mirror and/or dark matter.
Anonymous —
Thanks. We'll see about the burying issue...
Tim —
Thanks. Appreciated.
The quote is from the producers.
You might have something with the eye (right, I think) / alcohol connection. Booze are certainly associated with Jack's dark side. :)
Mike
it was fascinating to read, but from my expirience, show writers are always less sophisticated than thier readers. i think we might be very dissapointed at the end. it happened to me with the matrix as well, matrix reloaded was so stupid compared with the amazing vieweres theories.
Israel (?) —
Thanks.
I think we've actually just been given a big chunk of the answer:
An island where really weird stuff happens because it formed around a bunch of this exotic matter we read about in a Steven Hawking book. The island is Atlantis, and hell, and heaven, and other mysterious places because it moves and it's weird.
And, oh yeah, we're throwing in a Biblically-inspired story about destiny.
Frankly, that could be it.
Would that be satisfying to you?
I think that's where we're at at the moment, but they still have 2 seasons left... I'd like an explanation for the light/dark, mirror stuff. But even without that, I'd still think the show is amazing.
Mike
MikeNY, I have enjoyed reading about your theory. I know not much about physics (I barely survived my lone semester in college), so I will trust that your use of it is accurate. You have impressed me with your explanations. My only concern is the complexity of it all to a wide-viewing audience. As a couple of posters have previously noted, to have such a difficult physics concept undergird all of this would be overwhelming upon the general audience. How might they be able to explain all this to the wider group without making them madder than they are already?
Also, did Widmore fund the Dharma Initiative? How did Ben "steal" it from him (perhaps with the mass murder and presumed moving of the moon)?
Speculation: Desmond will not allow Ben to kill Penny. Ben will, however, help the O-6 get back.
Thanks again.
--RyanKY
Ryan —
Thanks.
I'm as lost as anyone, but I do think wacky pseudoscience stories like this one have only become more plausible over the course of Season 4. (Imagine what it was like 8 months ago trying to convince people the island moves...)
If it weren't for the abundant and continuing references to mirrors, Alice in Wonderland, reflection, light vs. dark, the blackboard, etc., I'd say ditch the Alice matter and just have a meteor with a large deposit of "exotic" matter (another type of hypothetical matter).
For me, there's just something so compelling about a bridge between yin and yang. And, I think, after the finale, all that's needed is for Jacob to go "I'm bringing all the dark souls back to the place they were created." (OK, fine ;), we'd need more, like Richard waxing on about dark matter and two sides. But then, with all the setup, I'd like to think light vs. dark wouldn't surprise anyone.)
I think Widmore and Paik funded DHARMA, as imperialists of sorts. So yeah, you've nailed my take on it: mass murder and moving it.
Your speculation makes me think that Penny and Desmond will elude Ben by traveling back to the island via wormhole, maybe using the means that Ben figures out. If he literally can't go back, then perhaps they'd be safe. So your idea could give us a reason for Adam and Eve. :)
See, unnecessarily long... just like the theory.
Cheers,
Mike
Great theory, could this fit in somewhere with moving the island
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_train
42 being a lost number.
One trick I learned when I miss some of the dialog, or I can't make out a word or a phrase, is to turn on the closed captioning.
When Sawyer whispers to Kate in the helicopter, he says "I have a daughter in Albuquerque. You need to find her. Tell her I'm sorry."
I wonder who the daughter is?
anonymous —
(I like that idea very much — check out the movement section)
I think the default interpretation is that the island jumped, as if through a wormhole, to a different location. That sounds like a wise assumption.
But the theory also offers the idea that the island immediately fell downward through the earth toward an antipodal location (or close to it) and then perhaps continued to oscillate until it lodged somewhere else.
No friction means it would operate just like a gravity train.
Brilliant link, thank you!
anonymous —
That was a clever catch! I had no idea they would transcribe whispered dialog.
Yeah, do you think the daughter could play a bigger role in the story beyond Kate just honoring his request?
Mike
(ssory for the double posting, I already left this message on the theoriesonlost blog, but I'm curious what you think of it)
Season 4 finale: Kate receives a phone call, but hears only gibberish. Play it backwards and it says
The Island needs you. You have to go back before it's too late.
If someone were able to broadcast a signal from the island and, say, make a phone call, then it would sound as if the caller tries to read an English sentence right to left.
Also, if mirror symmetry is assumed for time passge as well, then, as events advance towards their future end on the Island, time goes backward here.
Also, when John watches the rabbit time travel experiment (6 of 6), it appears as if the tape player malfunctioned and the tape was being rewound. I don't think it was.
I think the rabbit was moved in the future, by "pushing" everything (the island, the people etc) into the past. The rabit wasn't "thrown" forward, rather the whole island was set on "rewind." That would be the only explanation, in my view, of why we see backwards playing -- thought I'd be curious to hear your opinion.
Serban —
Thanks! I check Dark's site infrequently, so I'm glad you posted this here.
That backward speech is great. I've considered that the backward speech we've heard in the past is also possible support for theory based on Lewis Carroll's work or reversals.
I used to be pretty sold on the idea that time was reversed on the island, hence the backward speech, but now I don't think that holds water anymore. Instead, it's probably just a clue.
That's a brilliant outside-of-the-box idea!
Wait... I just checked it, and it's definitely being rewound. Still, there could be an important metaphor, right?
Mike
Hey Mike,
Initially I thought that the recorder was still on, but that everything, including its functioning was set on "reverse", when the bunny was "moved" in the future.
My clue came from the final words Halliwax uttered before the rewind kicked in
For the briefest of moments the animal will seem to disappear, but in reality. . .
My first instict was to fill out mentally "but in reality it does not. The rabbit keeps staying on the floor. WE ARE MOVING BACK."
Now I'm not so sure about this, however. "in reality" could mean a bunch of other things.
There is something, though, about the magnetic properties of the tape that was affected at the moment when the tape started to rewind (and, I suppose, when the shift occurred.)
I was also thinking the backward speech may happen because something broadcast from the island will be like an (audio) picture, but only contemplated in the mirror. Like, if your reflection showed you a dog to the left of a horse you'd perceive it as a dog to the right of horse. Or if you tried to write to your own reflexion, you'd have to write the letters backwards. By extension (and that's a bit of a stretch), if your reflection were to speak, you'd hear backward speech.
Hi Mike!
It is a very good theory you got there in my opinion.
I came across it by reading Simutiger's thread.
I have only one problem with it... 108. In Simutigers thread I asked why the estimated "near-to-surface-events" were every 144 minutes. Here now I read it's a rythm based on an online game... ok, dunno bout it, but I'll take it as a given.
Through this number I had to think "why not 108 minutes, the pulse of the station?"
And I made some speculations/calculations...
Think, Dharma wanted to say hello to mother earth by manipulating her (electro)magnetic field. And they wanted to do that to say "Hi there, we're still alive and well and we are, at the moment, here." It's a positioning signal, and a signal that everything is fine and going the right way... They sent that signal with the lowfi-PC connected to the strong (electro)magnetic field, every 108 minutes. 108 because it's its own time... not 144 but 108.
I know you know about the "Lost Time" theory. Hence the 23 hour orbit... Well, it's not 23, it's 18 hours.
The moon comes closest to surface every 144 minutes. This is a rythm, making it logical to sync my "hello" message to that rythm. Pushing the Button 10 times fulfilles the circle of 24 hours.
Dharma pushed it every 108 minutes, times 10 is 18 hours.
And, bamm, you won 6 hours for this day.
And, after all events from this season, in my opinion your theory still fits the requirements.
Have a nice day, Christian.
Mike,
I love this. The Jacob thing sounds like the perfect fit.
I wonder. Do you think that by exotic matter they mirror matter?
Serban —
Yeah... But I still think you're on to something.
I really like the idea that the tape was fried at that moment because of the shift.
Remember when the boy tells Eko to "confess," only backwards? I think that might have been communication from off the island. It'd be really cool to see more "reflected communication," like reversed letters you mention.
Christian —
Thanks!
I like your argument for 18 hours and the synchronized "hello" signal.
But I've actually decided to shift to a moon that is usually stationary. The show seemed to demand it, and it actually seems to be a bit more plausible.
The revision is on this web page. I welcome your opinion of it.
Anonymous —
Thanks. Hmm. I'm not sure if mirror matter is considered to a type of "exotic matter." I know some hypothetical forms of dark matter are, so... perhaps...
What they mentioned (negatively-charged exotic matter) is exactly what wormholes call for, so I think that was the intent of the language — probably not to point to mirror matter.
Mike
That's the show there in the first 4 paragraphs.
I read this about 3 months ago and thought it was probably correct. Now I don't think I have any doubts.
Holy cow, are you sure this is actually a "theory"?
I meant it might be the real deal.
So are you going to tell us when Darlton call you or are you just going to pretend they didn't?
Sam
Has anyone looked at Faraday cages in relation to our Faraday character and the physicist?
anonymous(es) —
Thanks!
Sam —
LMAO! For so many reasons, I doubt that would ever happen. But thank you for the vote of confidence.
limitless infinity —
Indeed, I think they have. I've caught wind of the idea of the island being within a sort of Faraday cage (though obviously not in the traditional sense).
Mike
Not to be racist or anything but, Rose is african-american(dark)And her husband is white(light) so that could be another light and dark clue.
Jared —
In fact, that whole episode ("Collision") is filled with light and dark coming together.
Mike
BTW All —
I f'd up the purge date (OK now). Something didn't smell right. Thanks to posters jane_eris and BlackLotus for helping with the info.
This is the most carefully reasoned and compelling theory I've come across. Amazing job!!!
They've implied that the ending will be worth the wait. This is interesting and meaningful enough to fit the bill. I'll be back.
Ben M. (not L)
I'm with one of the anonymous's above. I though this was spot on when I read it a while ago. The tweaks and additions make it sizzle.
I think the coffin scene was in late 2007 so the timeline would work if they continue the "present" from the funeral parlor.
John (not L!)
WOW... I cannot believe the amount of work you have put into this. Glad you posted a link to this on the Lage... I am bookmarking this because I really think you are onto something here.....
KG —
Thanks :)
Slow and steady sums it up. Hopefully, there's a sliver of something worthwhile in there.
Mike
Charles Widmore = CW = clockwise
Crazy, but worth throwing around for the sake of boredom during the break between seasons... -Markus
Markus—
Thanks :)
Here's another:
Desmond = des Mond = "of the moon" in German
Mike
Hello MikeNY.... have not seen much of you over at the lage lately?? I found this information at the university of michigans physics department web site...that might be of interest to you!!!
http://www.physics.lsa.umich.edu/about/history/
In the 1950s, Michigan developed a strong program in high-energy physics, which took its place alongside traditionally strong programs in atomic and nuclear physics; in the 1960s Franken and Sands established the renowned "resonance group" in Randall Laboratory. From the 1950s to the 1970s, Michigan continued its tradition as a leader in world physics; following are a sample of the significant advances in physics to take place at Michigan in this time: the invention of coherent fiber optics; Nobel physicist Glaser's invention of the bubble chamber; the discovery of optical harmonics--the first non-linear optical phenomenon; the development of the idea of colliding particle beams; the first achievement of polarization of particle beams at high energies; the discovery of anomalous spin effects in proton collisions and resulting challenge to fundamental principles of quantum mechanics; and the discovery of the principles of chain folding in macromolecules.
Also don't forget that many astronauts are alumni of university of michigan (the college where Karen and Gerald DeGroot were attending)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Michigan
Several astronauts are alumni, including the all-UM crews of Gemini 4 and Apollo 15.
MikeNY
Listening to a great song this morning “They Stood up for Love” by LIVE, after hearing the chorus
we spend all of our lives/goin' out of our minds/lookin' back to our birth/forward to our demise
I got to thinking about Locke and how in the space of ‘two’ episodes we flashed back to his birth and forward to his death. Then I heard these words on the bridge…
we made it to the moon/but we can't make it home/waitin' on a rescue that never comes
Just thought I’d share!
Still the coolest theory going, though after this season I think the powers that be are leaning towards some sort of alien/or ancient intelligence rather than a natural phenomenon.
I’m still leaning toward it being a moon because of all the blatant moon references in the show. But I also now think it was stationery, if moving it is such big thing, then obviously it must not move very regularly. I cannot wait until season 6 when they fill some of this in! (I don’t think we’ll get many answers in season 5!)
Also the idea of it being knocked out of alignment by the hatch implosion (from others here) is supported by two separate points, the bearing to get off had changed and the communications from the flame had been severed – almost as if their satellite was now pointing the wrong way.
The various theories around the net about the numbers (4,8,15,16,23,42) being a calculation to do with the end of the world have intrigued me ever since I learned that Earth’s magnetic field has been deteriorating and such declines usually lead to a spontaneous reversal of the magnetic poles.
Apparently it is theorized to have occurred many times in earth’s past but the last event was 780,000 years ago.
At current projections the next reversal is slated to occur in 4000AM (so a while off yet!)
So why do I think this is important - the old woman’s comment to Desmond ("Flashes before your eyes") that if he doesn’t push that button we’re all dead!
Obviously the Swan was sitting on something so big it could affect the world in a really bad way if it wasn’t contained (was it arresting this decline or somehow regulating it?)
Maybe the island is interacting with the Earth’s magnetic field in some weird way and the swan was keeping it under control, of course what does that mean now that the hatch has imploded??
Of course the implosion of the Swan produced a very similar effect to the frozen donkey wheel (BTW how audacious is that to basically tell everyone about the big secret and yet it sounds so freaking weird that noone believes it – that’s why I reckon the spaceship theory still has legs!), so how does that factor into 'saving the world'?
Who the frak knows with this show – maybe (to quote Marge Simpson) “it’s just a bunch of stuff that happened!”
I am totally clueless – but it’s fun thinking about all this stuff!
This theory is incredible.
The attention to detail seems flawless and the argument is clear and convincing.
It's really amazing how just about every odd thing in the show from the foot to the mirrors that keep popping up as props to why Ben had to wait to do the purge to why the show fast-forwarded to toward 2008...how it all fits like they're intentionally building this mountain of clues.
Awesome, awesome theory!
J.R.C.
KG —
Thank you for sharing the links!
I guess picking Michigan was definitely not random. The work on particle collisions (and its timing) certainly fits with the idea that Lost is about a fundamental issue with quantum mechanics. Parity reversal or dark or mirror matter? Who knows. But it's certainly the right field.
I don't think I do justice to just how basic the idea of parity is in particle physics. Charge, Parity, and Time are the fundamental, old-school avenues for exploring symmetry. Everyone has heard of antimatter — that's flipping charge (positive/negative). But the particles basically detonate on contact, so that can't work. Mirror matter is flipping parity (spatial coordinates). It is theoretical, but the beauty is that nothing explodes, so the particles can coexist in parallel. (Flipping time is little less straightforward.) OK, done rambling... :)
HE —
I only bought "throwing copper" way back, so that one's new. Thanks :)
I'm more and more certain that we're dealing with a little foreign body from space. Those first 3 quotes in the gray box certainly suggest that IMO. I could still see the alien/future man planet-spacetime-ship thing happening. Jacob is collecting the (reincarnations) of the crew (his list). Ya know, then it's blast off to the Crab Nebula. Or not... I mean, that WOULD be ridiculously sci-fi, right?
I like the alignment idea. The thing seemed to stay put near Fiji, but there was the shaking Earth—like an unsuccessful teleportation.
On the Swan and magnetic catastrophes...
I've been aligning my thoughts with the idea that the purpose of the Swan was to create a singularity or something else related to physics that could prove catastrophic. It wasn't the release of the energy (the purple sky) that was dangerous, but overloading DHARMA's machine.
But I think your idea is just as credible, if not more so. Maybe DHARMA builds this thing to SAVE the world from a predicted electromagnetic catastrophe... It's just that they had an accident...
I keep asking myself: Does a stone wall with a wooden wheel and oil lamp sound like advanced technology? Whatever the island, it seems some old castaways built a machine that releases just enough energy to move the island.
Islands are wet mountains. I wonder if Ben moved it and himself to Mohamed (er, Tunisia).
J.R.C. —
Thank you. I appreciate your kind words. I'm sure that it will be in need of revision soon enough. :)
Mike
Is it just me or does the LOST logo always look like an old mirror with some black stains?
http://caffeine-headache.net/blog3/s2Poster.jpg
I've sure I've seen just that sort of thing many times but I can't find a good example on the net right now.
Michelle
Michelle —
Ya know...
I think that works :)
It always struck me as scratched metal, but I have in fact seen old, stained mirrors that look like that.
I think we just need a 3rd party saying, "yeah, I could see that..."
Mike
So, I was re-reading the post again about the island being orginially anchored near Egypt and thought maybe that's where Richard came from...would explain the eyeliner :-)
This is far and away the best theory of Lost that I've ever come across. THe best part is that everything top to bottom fits into the mirror-dark/light theme. Bravo. I'm sure some if not a lot of this is actually true. I don't know how else you could explain all of the strange elements of the show with a single theme. I'll be back. M.W.
anonymous —
I think you're right about Egyptians and eyeliner. And the ode to the Egyptians with the Swan hieroglyphics would certainly seem to place an access point or the island itself near around Egypt (maybe Tunisia). I think Richard is ageless because he fills a mythical role like Abbadon. Do you think Richard speaks Egyptian?
M.W. —
Thanks! Appreciated. I keep this page going because I agree about the unification angle. But really, who knows...
Mike
So I went on the internet a couple days ago to check out theories about this show. I read a great number of them. Then I came to this one and I told my wife that I would just stop because I don't think I'll find a better one before the next season begins. Bravo! You just saved me from taxing my brain about this show for the next half year or so.
Andrew
Andrew —
Thanks! Appreciated. I'd keep reading, however, as (1) there's some truly brilliant stuff out there, and (2) logically, the possibility remains that this is a load of &%^!@.
:)
Cheers.
Mike
So that’s why Ben says to Jack: ‘ you’re on the dark side now Jack’. At the place where secrets stay hidden? As opposed to the light place where eventually they come out.
I also noted that the kid Jack is reading (Aaron) looks a lot like the young John Lock, Richard visits.
Anyway I found the following on some lost forum, thought that it kind of backs up what you say.
Its by Francois Rousseau, written in 1988.
The 4 stands for 4 degrees of separation (not 6 or 7 as commonly stated.) Roussau believed that everyone in the world was connected by four different people. So in theory could meet yourself by using four different people connected to you. Example: Your brother's, boss's, neighbor nephew, knows your mirror. Hard to believe, I know but keep reading.
The 8 stands for the eight continent, or the only place in the world where you could meet your mirror. He calculated it to be somewhere in the south pacific. Now we know its not actually as large as the other contintents but its used figurtively because everyone in all 7 continents could meet there mirror on the 8th universal continent.
The 15 stands for the chances of you acually meeting yourself on this place, as in 15 out of 4,815,162,342. Look at the second set "815." Ring any bells? Interesting huh?
The 16 stands for the maximum amount of people that could encounter thier twin all at the same time. Think about the number of main characters.
The 23 is the number of years apart your twin and yourself are. You are not the same age as your twin. By chance and probablity it takes 23 years exactly for the same genes that made you to be connected again to form another you.
The 42 stands for the maximimum number of years your twin and yourself can be alive at the same time. However people do die at diffferent times so thats why everyone isn't dead at 75. For example my twin was born on Sept. 6 2003 b/c i was born on Spet. 6 1980. Now that doesn't mean i will die in the year 2045, I could, but its not set in stone. My twin could die when he is 16, and then the whole thing starts over again.
This is all very complicated and I don't know how well I explained it but the connections with the show are too coinidental to not be real.
Roussau and his team (wife, included) went to the 8th continent. You can figure out how they died and why by the numbers and equations. It also fits with every character. You can predict when they will die. There are others on the island who are twins of the survivors, but have been there 23 years longer.
There is a book Roussau wrote 16 years ago in 1988 when he came up with the theory. Thats where I got it from.
If we consider the fact that about a 100 days on the island is 3 years in the normal world, we have 2 possibilities for Adam and Eve.
1. They could have been there for 50 island years
This would mean that they have been there for 195 years in the real world
2. They have been there for 50 years so about 4-5 years in the normal world
-it could be 2 Dharma people that ran from Ben and Alperts slaughter
-Thats why wounds heal faster
-Thats why Yemi's decomposing body looked just like Adam and Eve's
- Same for the Dharma bodies
- Would mean that Dharma came to the island in 1980’s and for those involved on the island actually only 810 days past till 2007 , which is about the amount Desmond has been in the Hatch.
- As for Alpert: 2 Alperts
I kept seeing links people made to this page on different discussion boards. I skimmed it once a few months ago but not too closely. Just really read it. Now I understand LOL!
I guess I agree with everyone. This takes an objective stance and it has real, serious potential. This is brilliant, satisfying and fits with everything so far. I hope the writers have something this amazing in mind for the upcoming seasons.
So thank you for thinking through the details. Its the fact that all of the details fit so well that really makes it terrific. I'll be back to read your updates.
CT
Aaron —
Thank for the insight and info!
There indeed seems to be some resemblance between little John and little Ben.
I'm really curious to know if John Locke was born at the antipode of the island's location (and Ben as well). [Simone5p raised this cool notion]
It would be a pretty compelling story if all souls of island leaders were spit out to a mirror point (antipode) on the Earth's surface to a woman named Emily.
Unfortunately, as cool as the Francois Rousseau stuff sounds, rumor has it it's just that. Bummer. :-(
Anonymous —
I'm really sympathetic to time dilation theories.
But... for now, it seems everything works out very smoothly if time is synchronized on and off the island.
The producers said the explanation for Adam and Eve would prove they had a plan from the beginning. I think that definitely leaves the door open for cool time wackiness.
Heck, just entering the island at the wrong angle might throw you back several decades...
CT —
Thanks! Appreciated. To think this is the theory after a Season 4 diet... lol
This is the best lost theory ever. Hands down!
kp
Brilliant, Mike!
The show is based on a tweak of a basic property of physics.
This version fits the show flawlessly. The best part is how the endless details and producers' commentary all fall in line.
I love it! I'll share the link with some colleagues.
Peter D.
Mike,
Did you see Lindelof and Cuse's appearance at Comicon? The Candle character confirmed that the Kerr metric is involved and that Dharma urgently needs to be reconstituted. Just in time for a rebirth of the dark faction 32 years later (2008)?
So far so good!
Adam
Thank you!
This is the most well-vetted theory of Lost that I've ever read.
I really like how it explains the Adam and Eve (an earlier purge in 1960), why Ben had to wait until 1992 to commit the purge, why Jacob ensured that Aaron left the island, why the Others have been in decline, and why the Dark side (DHARMA, or Dharma-like in spirit) needs to be quickly reconstituted (for the transition to Dark dominance in 2008).
One theme for everything. I didn't think it could be done.
Really. Flat out brilliant synthesis!
MB
kp, Peter D, Adam, and MB —
Thank you for the kind words!
Adam — It's curious that the new DI logo is rotated 90° clockwise (as was the wheel). The speculative 32-year cycle suggests a science faction should overtake a faith faction every 32 years. If this were correct and a Dharma-like science faction were reconstituted again in 2040, I suppose their logo might be rotated further clockwise.
Cheers,
Mike
This theory is on a whole other level. It completely explains the show with one idea! I really like the quotes at the end because they fit perfectly. Crab nebulla, hah!
holy cow, I'm speechless
Best ever!
Anonymous(es) —
Thanks! Appreciated.
I'm not sure if I love or hate this at the moment.
Mike
mike. I don't know if you're paying attention to the ARG. The first task is to assemble what could be a broken mirror. Then you're divided into two groups that have names which are moons in our solar system. I love your theory.
Anonymous —
Thanks! I've barely looked at the ARG beyond the symbol, but I did sign up.
The moons and possible mirror can be added to the litany of "convenient consistencies" — circumstantial evidence that would make the story more compelling if it is about duality and mirror matter, but not strong enough to make the case by itself.
Cheers!
Mike
mike. The groups for the new ARG puzzle are kinds of cyclops. "The people of Miros are a bit strange, they have very large feet and only have one eye"
Anonymous —
Sounds good!
Thanks. :)
Mike
Wow Mike
I haven't been back here since the season ended - but I decided to see if you've made any changes. I gotta say I'm really impressed with amendments. This whole Aaron is the new Widmore theory of yours rings true to me - kudos.
(Geez I cannot wait till Jan - hopefully this Fringe is alright!)
HE —
Nice hearing from you. You catch the 3.2 decades thing? That's the meat of the addition. Back to real work.
Wow! Very compelling blog!
I've gotta say some things are pretty damning when taken together, like the Crab Nebula commentary, the mirrors in the parking lot, the drawings on the blackboard (HERE and THERE LMAO!!), the inverted Bagua, and the quotes about not being on earth and not being an island exactly.
Cheers!
Martin
You had me at "Crab Nebula"
LOL
Needless to say, you convinced or I should say the evidence convinced me.
Mike, I googled Gerald DeGroot. The only person that pops up is Gerald DeGroot who wrote "Dark Side of the Moon." The catch is DeGroot shows up in LOST a year before the book was published. Of course that's really only a problem if no one knew about the book before it went on sale.
mb
Martin and Anonymous —
Thanks. Your words are appreciated. Let's see what happens...
mb —
That *is* quite convenient. Thanks. I share your reservations, however, regarding the dates.
Mike
Positively brilliant!
BH
BH —
Thanks. We'll see what happens...
Mike
Mike,
Your link to the '08 Nobel Physics prize commentary got me on a Google/JSTOR search frenzy for more mirror matter "scientific articles" that preceded or were contemporaneous with LOST's inception. My thought is that mirror matter science articles written about the same time the show was being created might give clues to how LOST develops. No doubt your reference to Foot's book as the source for the mirror science of the show is right on. Anyway, I had a couple connects from some pre-LOST MMatter articles. 1) Foot's '02 article "Does Mirror Matter Exist"
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/hep-ph/pdf/0207/0207175v1.pdf references the greater density of mirror matter and posits that this is the reason for the anomalous slowing down of the Pioneer spacecraft. LOST connection is the anomalous "slowing down"/time discrepency of Faraday's rockets. 2) In a BBC/h2g2 article, http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A1300429, the author refers to a Holdom Force where there "may be an unknown force that links ordinary matter with mirror matter. The reason is that physicists believe the universe is actually very simple, and that the fundamental forces should be facets of one force, or 'superforce' that ties everything we know about particles together. Holdom believed the same unification should be true of matter and mirror matter." Could the Holdom SuperForce be represented by the ISLAND? Holdom also theorized that Mirror particles and ordinary particles would be able to change into each other via use of an H particle. In fact, evidence of this has been found at the Sudbury Neutrino Observatory (SNO) in Canada.
In addition,the same article describes speculation "that extra-terrestrials have never been observed because they exist as mirror matter...and there could even be mirror people walking on the Earth with us. Robert Foot openly admits that he has a vivid imagination." I dunno, but could LOST be about "Mirror People amongst us?"
Cheers,
Mirror Matter Disciple
A recent published paper by Foot, Sept. 2008, on Mirror Dark Matter has this quote, "A mirror sector of particles and forces...allows for improper Lorentz symmetries, such as space-time parity and time reversal." http://arxiv.org/pdf/0809.4438. Wickipedia says Time reversal may refer to:
"In physics, T-symmetry - the study of thermodynamics and the symmetry of certain physical laws where the concept of time is reversed — ie. where a mirror (reverse) transformation is applied to a forward direction time state.
Time Reversal Signal Processing - a signal processing technique popular in acoustics, and currently being applied to electromagnetics, that results from the reversal in time of a system's response signal.
Time travel - theorised and speculative concepts about travelling physically through time." I am not a scientist, so hope this is not a bore to you, but I find it interesting that mirror matter theories embrace time reversal in several ways, most notably in the transmission of sound,Time Reversal Signal Processing , e.g. watabout those radio signals between the freighter and Island and the dead Doc and in the T-symmetry where mirror particles can be used to explain the improper Lorentz symmetry of time travel. I guess what I am getting at is cannot the mirror world you first theorized explain the science of LOST with out having to go down the wormhole route and kerr metrics? I liked your theory better when mirror matter was the foundation without the additions formed by a singularity/wormhole construct.
Cheers,
Mirror Matter Disciple
MMD —
Nice to hear from you.
I think you're right about recent articles possibly informing the show (you know, if this isn't all crap).
That 2002 article strikes me as especially relevant. It's all about mirror matter meteors, which brings to mind the strike on the chicken shack. Inspiration maybe?
That's the first I've heard of the Holdom Superforce (it sounds like fringe stuff, through I'm not a physicist).
RE mirror matter people among us:
"Is everyone on the island from Planet Earth?"
If the show IS about mirror people among us, I'd suspect it's limited to the island, as those mirror people would need terrain to exist on (like the island).
That notion was actually the initial explanation for the whispers and monster — the other side being partially perceptible and interactive. I doubt those initial guesses now, though.
RE time travel and the need for wormholes:
Unfortunately, I think the wormhole ship has sailed, as it's the only relatively practical way to explain time-shifts. In fact, I think Chang mentioned Kerr explicitly in the Comicon video.
In my understanding, the relevant time reversal would occur only on the tiny scale of particle motion, meaning time wouldn't go backward on a macro scale (that is, as far as we're concerned) in a mirror world. The backward speech, chess, white rabbits, etc, would just be very direct references to Alice (as in Alice matter).
Speaking of wormholes and Alice... An even older paper (1992) by Schwarz and Tyupkin is all about "Alice strings," which would be a much better way to explain the transition between worlds. They would just have to stick some around the perimeter of the island. They essentially act like Alice's looking-glass, converting one form of matter to the other. Oh well...
The island seems to be suspended by a web of wormholes. That web needs to serve a purpose. And as time travel is ostensibly paradox-proof on Lost, I think having them serve as a bridge makes some sense.
Back to work. Peace,
Mike
Mike -
The mirroring of the flight is simply amazing. I checked the flight path and it's right on. I was checking out Foot's book online (see page 30 in the sample chapter) and that has to be one the most clever Easter Eggs yet. I mean, why else swap the X coordinates exactly like in mirror matter? It's perfect!
I'll calm down ;)
Peter L.
Peter —
Yeah, I love that too! Thanks again to Jason.
Mike
This mirror matter theory is out and out awesome, you should expect a call from the producers soon.
DV
DV —
:-) I doubt that, but thanks!
Mike
GREAT STUUUUUUUUUFFFFFFFFF !!!!!!! i just read the theory and it makes a lot of sence now !! this is AWSOME !!
Sam
Cairo,Egypt
I agree with Sam from Cairo. Definitely good stuff. Some of the Easter eggs are stunners.
-Paul
Sam and Paul —
Thanks. Appreciated.
I've had time-paradox and marooned-planet-ship-from-the-future scenarios in mind; but it's stuff like the mirrored plane locations that make me think this might not be as ridiculous as it sounds.
Cheers,
Mike
I can't deny that this is a very compelling argument with lots of clever evidence. I'm not sure about the 16 year thing, however a time-paradox scenario could take its place and the theory would still work fine I think. - JE
So, question, is there a specific relationship between time on the island and time in the real world? From the time of the crash, it seems like a month on the island on the island equals about a year in real life. But how do you explain the aging of Ben and everyone else on the island through the 80's and 90's? Has he only felt about a 2 or 3 year length of time? And has Juliet been on the island 3 years in the real world or 3 years relative to the island? do you age faster on the island? It just seems inconsistent.
Thoughts?
regardless, this theory (although i don't fully understand all the reasoning perfectly) was great. can't wait for season 5!
- Matt
Brilliant theory Mike. I'm especially loving the 3.2 decade cycle to explain the preservation of neutrality between the two sides. It always confused me as to why the hostiles allowed Dharma to flourish on the island for so long. Maybe they didn't have a choice -- it was just Dharma's turn.
I don't know if you have seen the promos for season five, and I won't say anything specific for fear of spoiling you, but in general terms -- and knowing Damon and Carlton's affinity to fragmenting the overall story, I think it lends more credence to your idea of a continuous cycle of the island's governance by the light and dark sides.
-- Soother17 from Lostpedia
JE —
Yeah, the 16-year thing is definitely tentative. :)
Matt —
Thanks. I now think time is the same on and off the island. Everyone would simply age normally. Where I think the weirdness comes in is (1) when you move on or off the island (between worlds, according to the theory) you can shift in time, and (2) when the wheel is turned, people and the island can be thrown through time and space (also via the wormholes).
Soother —
Thanks. Nice to hear from you! I have seen the promos (at least several of them). I think we'll find a lot of parallels between 2004 and 1988. Although I think the science/faith war is probably real, my confidence in the 32-year cycle is still only so-so. Have you seen anything in particular that you think gives it some credence?
Mike
Hi Mike:
Great to talk to you too, after a while!
--- Spoiler below for those who have not seen the season five promos: ---
Regarding the promo, I didn't have anything too specific, just the fact that the story time line seems to have shifted to the Dharma days -- the first half of the current cycle.
I remember an old rumor (back in season two, when Damon was planning on having a total of five seasons) that whereas seasons one and two were about the survivors and the hatch respectively, the themes for seasons three, four, and five would be Others/hostiles, Dharma, and the island -- i.e. about the dark side, the light side, and finally the bridge between the two. I had dismissed it before since I honestly did not think Dharma would play a major role in the overall mythology (I saw it more as a red herring to misdirect the viewers away from the real questions), but now I see how well the themes would tie in with your idea of cyclic governance of the island.
--- End of spoiler ---
Just wanted to mention what could be an easter egg. Going through your theory again, I remembered being very excited while watching one of Jack's shots in Through The Looking Glass. In the last scene, as Jack waits in his car for Kate, he looks into the mirror which ties in well with his desire "to go back." I'm sure you noticed this too, since I remember reading you mentioned something similar about Locke when he is driving after losing his kidney. Looking back at it in cold blood, it could be a coincidence, but at the time his look said "I have to get back to the other side of that mirror."
Cheers!
-- Soother
Mike, I just read your thoughts on the season five promos. I had a couple of questions, and some rambling thoughts to add.
If the left behinders are teleported back in time, wouldn't it violate the "only one time line" principle? Say they go back to 1978, wouldn't this mean that there are two John Lockes at that time -- one on the island, the other off it?
Or is it fine to have one John Locke each on either side? We certainly saw Ray, the doctor, alive off the island, and simultaneously dead on it.
I'm still trying to make some sense out of it, but Charlotte's story would be interesting if we assume that she was born on the island. Can the island go back to a time where she was not born yet? Could this be why Claire (probably the youngest of the lot) was "taken out" by Christian (allowing the island to go back to a time when she wasn't born yet?), and why Aaron had to get off the island, and Alex and Karl had to die. Sorry, I know I'm rambling here, but can you blame me -- this is exciting stuff hehe. It just strikes me that the youngest of the islanders were removed last season. I'm not sure how Zack, Emma, and other kids would tie into this, maybe they were not living on the island when Ben moved it, but some place else on the dark side.
Also -- Ben, Ethan, Goodwin, and the rest of the recruited Others are gone. Kelvin and Mikhail are dead. I think what I'm getting at is that people who were on the island after the losties crashed are either dead or off the island (Ben) *if* they were also on the island during the Dharma days, thus making it possible for the writers to bring some of them back next season (e.g., the man who is pointing his gun at Locke in the promo looks like Ethan). Someone like Juliet -- a more recent recruit -- on the other hand, is still on the island.
With your teleportation back in time idea, do you have any thoughts on why exactly the Oceanic six need to get back? In other words, how would them being back fix the "very bad things" that happened on the island?
Sorry for the rambling, I'll try to keep myself in check in the future.
-- Soother
So what do you think the runway is for?
Soother —
I'd love that quote about the seasons and themes. Actually, this sounds about right:
Losties, Hatch, Others, Miscellaneous Mythology, DHARMA?, Island?
I know that moment in the car :) It's like the mirror-like LOST logo to me... suggestive but hard to claim as clear support. I've got several more but I dare not include them on the page as the theory is tenuous enough... :)
A quote I can't find myself is one where Darlton say it will be especially interesting having time travel because they can't change anything. In fact, they made it sound like, struggle as they might, the rescuers will only help to cause what they are trying to avert. Death by purge, maybe? Could that be part of the very bad things?
I think in the show time travel is acceptable... because it can't change anything that isn't trivial. So I assume interaction with the other inhabitants or any doubles will be a carefully handled thing.
That's a very interesting idea about Claire and age. I think she was born in 1981, so if they pop up in 1976 or so that might make a lot of sense.
I wonder, though, about the Others that were with Locke. Could they / did they go back with him?
Jack: "We need to protect the people that we left behind."
This makes me think of protection from the purge.
Richard: "The only way to save the island john is to get your people back here."
And this makes me think about faith and destiny. Time-paradox maybe?
Also, looks like a Dharma station at Beacon Rock might be a key to their return... (maybe :))
Anonymous —
Assuming this theory isn't crap... :)
It's for the aliens. All of the humans not born on the island would be aliens... lol, right?
I'd guess it suggests the story on the island will continue after the O6 left. Maybe the new DHARMA recruits will arrive in 2008? Someone's looking ahead...
Mike
Mike -
Check this out http://www.hawaiiweblog.com/2008/12/14/lost-in-pictures
The DI recruiting until 1976 fits your time-line.
-J
J —
Very cool, thanks! I missed that bit. :)
Mike
Somthing that you may like to use, I believe in season 5 everything has swapped over (much like you). Why?
815 was a potent number throughout seasons 1/2/3 and is in the "Numbers" 4,8,15- 815. If we swap the numbers round (The "mirror" numbers) we get 42, 23, 16, 15, which has 316. if you have been following the ARG then 316 are being used EVERYWHERE. has to be a pointer.
Cabsion —
That's a very clever and intriguing idea! We know the Bible passage might tie in too.
Let's keep an eye out for 422, 615, and the like.
Mike
If Lost is just about a wormhole inside the island and a donkey wheel that opens it up, they should use this theory instead.
Anonymous —
I think the exotic matter was put there or is required to be there for the story to work. So... ahhh... the island is a vehicle that jumped to the past, or it's something that can only be accessed via wormhole (dark matter being but one possibility). Did that make sense? My Point? There's surely more to it than just a wormhole and a wheel.
Cheers!
Mike
I just did a season two re-watch and in the bonus features where they take you on location for some episodes, they shoot an episode in reverse (two for the road). They claimed that they didn't have any cars with the steering wheel on the proper side so they shot it that way and reversed the neg. I wonder if they were shooting extra stuff...probably not but it could be. Wonderfully thought out theory by the way. Well done.
rybone —
Thanks!
I'm kind of inclined to take them at their word re the cars... But extra stuff? Maybe :)
Mike
Light vs Dark really permeates the show, doesn't it. Suppose Widmore turns the wheel and is banished from the island. What would Jack's role be? Would he be teleported to 2007/08 to take over as the new dark side leader?
B.F.
Mike, I have been keeping tabs on this site off-and-on since last May. It continues to have really good stuff. I'm impressed with all the ideas everyone has contributed. Nice retooling, by the way. This is the stuff that makes a simple television show that much more fun (and addictive!).
I was just watching a Lost rerun on SciFi and something really jumped out. It's the one where John, Ben, and Hurley are trying to find the cabin and John goes to the Dharma "burial" site. Ben says that the leader of the Others prior to him killed all the Dharmites. Who was this previous leader? Maybe I don't pay close enough attention or I've forgotten too much in the 'off-season' but this really has me stumped (and would seem to help explain some things--i.e., man of science/man of faith stuff). Any guesses? Thanks.
RyanKY
RyanKY —
Thanks. Comments like yours I think keep this thing from dying :)
The switch from Ben to John didn't happen until after Cooper died, and it was immediate.
So I think you're probably right that someone else was in charge just before the purge. But I'm at a loss for who.
Alpert? Some curveball? Widmore (despite my speculation on this page)?
Any guesses?
Mike
Mike, I was actually thinking that the previous leader was perhaps Widmore as well. He sure seems interested in finding that island! And we still don't know for sure what he wants with it and how he knew about it.
Well, tonight's episode was very helpful and, like all good shows, raised even more questions. We learned that Faraday either snuck into the DI or was a part of it. This and the jumps through time seem to back up much that has been discussed here as far as I can tell. It looks as though those left on the island are three? years in the past. And what about the new characters who were associates of Ben? Just when I started to think that maybe Ben isn't such a bad guy after all a new scheme of his turns up. Apparently, there is no good guy vs. bad guy routine between Widmore and Ben. It's only bad vs. bad.
This is easily the best Lost theory I've come across. COming at you from a ny magazine article.
Steve
When I saw Ms. Hawking's screen in episode 05.02 I almost fell off my couch. Looked a lot like your map of anitpodes. You are on to something for sure. Keep up the good work.
Ryan —
Only bad vs bad sounds about right, lol!
I think we'll find that the left-behinders will jump to the more interesting parts of the island's recent past, like DHARMA's time.
Then again, I wonder if the arrow-wielding Brits are associates of Widmore...
Steve —
Thanks!
Rybone —
Cool. I'll have to take another look, as I first thought "ring of fire."
Mike
I think the writers think they're smart, but the show is getting more and more retarded.
WTF is with just some of the people jumping through time? It's just utterly unrealistic.
great theory! But they're too dumb to think of something that makes this much sense! LOL!!
Bill
Bill —
I concur in some respects. It's ridiculous and getting more ridiculous. But that ship has sailed, and guess what? I still love the show. :) As for this making more sense, well... I'd say that's definitely a subjective matter too.
Matt —
Sorry, I loved the info in your comment, but I fear we could, well, "spoil" some readers with it.
Anyway, yes, that's very cool (if true) and lends credence to a timeline that extends in both directions. Re the character, yes, she would seem to fit with the "faith" faction.
Mike
Could you make some sort of change log for week to week changes after each episode? I love checking back on the site but its tough to follow what information is new. Maybe red lettering for all the changed info indicating its based off of the most recent episode or something.
Kevin —
LOL! Thanks, that's a great idea. I forget that people actually read this from week to week. The more fluid comments will be on the bottom, but if I tweak stuff above (the actual theory, if you will), I'll try to remember to color code it as you suggest. Thanks again.
Mike
A quote from the Lostpedia entry for Because You Left:
"When the Island moves, Locke covers his face with his left arm; but when the flash finishes, he's got his right arm up."
It's listed under bloopers and continuity errors, and I didn't notice it when I watched the episode, but it immediately made me think of your blog. He jumps from the present back to a time when Dharma was running things and so everything is reversed. Not a blooper, but a clue?
Marc —
Thanks for the tip! It's one of those things... it seems like a mistake, yet it should have been obvious when the show was edited (and directed). I'll take another look when I (inevitably) see the episode again.
Mike
Mike,
How do you think the 32 year cycle will holdup in S5? Also do you think you'll bring back some kind of predictions about where/when the island will be? Hawking's map shows that it probably moves somehow. I'm not expecting another spreadsheet! :-) Do you think it's just random?
S. R.
S. R. —
Re the cycle, I don't know. The catch may come down to why the purge occurred. If the date was arbitrary, then the main motivation for the cycle disappears.
Also, the cycle implies that there was a powerful science faction on the island during the events we saw in "Jughead" (in 1954). And who knows about that...
On the other hand, the Others have apparently been around for a long time... So DHARMA was apparently just one small chapter, rather than a clincher in the island's identity.
Re the location — I agree that the island probably changes locations. I'm obviously not unhappy to learn that... but no more spreadsheets! LOL!
It could be random, matching the time-jumps. But why those particular coordinates? Maybe it's connected to Earth's EM field? Seismic activity?
Suppose everything in this theory is crap... after Jughead, I'm thinking WHAT the island is matters much more to the mystery of Lost than what the characters are up to.
OK, done rambling. Cheers!
Mike
Dear Mike,
As pretty much everyone has posted, this is a pretty excellent theory. I was just wondering - since everyone seems to be able to move quite normally on the face of the moon - whether (a) the earth can and does provides adequate gravity somehow for the characters, although in that case the moon would pretty much have to be at the earth's surface for the amount of tug to feel normal or (b) it might be a mirror earth altogether, i.e. the mirror matter version of earth that exactly parallels the earth in size so as to provide the correct amount of gravity...but only has ocean and the island (& adjunct island)....and I guess the island/water around it would be the crossover point from natural world to mirror world. Rather than the moon moving around on or in the earth, the island would always correspond to somewhere close to the actual surface of the earth since the earth and mirror earth would (roughly) be of the same radius. If so, then for the island to be fixed to a location on earth (at least briefly) the earth and mirror earth's rotations would have to match one another perfectly giving no relative motion...but then if you can somehow knock the mirror earth into a different rotation/rotation speed/change the axis altogether, all sorts of funky things could happen.
Pretty indefinite at this point, and I'm pretty sure I've rambled on enough.
-BU
BU —
As absolutely cool as your idea would be, I've stuck with the little world version (your "a") because the circumstantial evidence seems to suggest island is part of a small, self-contained unit.
It's also more feasible from a physics standpoint (you know, on a VERY LARGE, relative scale, lol).
But forget that for a moment... How about this?
The topography of your mirror world is completely inverted. So what is a pit in a deep ocean trench on Earth is an island on your mirror world...
Mike
Greetings -
Sorry for jumping in with random, if not unrelated comments, but I've read this site on and off, and I love the range of takes on WTF is going on with Lost. Having devotedly watched every single episode, I continue to be amazed and impressed by what these guys are doing - and this site certainly does the show, and its writers/actors/producers credit.
That being said, now three hours into the new season, I thought I'd offer some thoughts.
1) Following Locke's visit via flash to/from 1954, it seems to me that the show may ultimately revolve around Locke and Widmore, with Richard serving as a possible "link" to times reaching far into the past and future. There is Locke - raised up from paralysis to walk, a man who "has to die" (and, we know does die), one who has seen Jacob, and certainly the first of the initial survivors of 815 to begin to "understand" the island. Not to mention, he's clearly assuming his role as "leader" here in S5. Widmore - this week "introduced" (well, it seems in at least his youngest incarnation) as a brash young 'soldier.' Yet, the older, aged Widmore has been, for the last three seasons, obsessed with finding (and perhaps returning to) the island. What I'm getting at is that the show may be focussing on man's desire for eternal life.
This is where Richard comes in. In this week's installment, Locke asked Juliet "how old is he?" Juliet's response was a simple, yet also sort of chilling "Old." Now, Widmore clearly once served under Richard, but let's say Widmore was somehow removed from the island, subsequently causing him to age. Might he not then spend his life devoted to getting back?
It was Juliet's one word that caught my attention. Richard has to be a major player in all of this, a talisman of sorts perhaps escorting Locke on this odd "walkabout" through time he has been on. Maybe what the characters are tying into isn't just the ability to move through time, but as the Dharma scientist said in the first episode of S5 - "to MANIPULATE time."
2) Charlotte's "death" (did she die?) - Perhaps if one lives long enough in one time so that he/she overlaps with his or her own birth, then might the elder incarnation of the person die? In this we might see the reason for Locke discussing his date of birth with Richard and his desperate plea for Richard to tell him how to get off the island just before the flash.
Too long a post I know - forgive me, and thanks to any who took the time to read my blabber!
~Steven
Mike,
Season Five has offered up little for mirror matter enthusiasts but I do take heart knowing the next episode is entitled "The Little Prince," and whose protaganist from the French short story lived on an asteroid that visited earth. Perhaps a mirror matter asteroid.
Cheers,
Mirror Matter Disciple
Steven —
Thanks! Great thoughts!
Re the fountain of youth, as it were -- Ben and Alex certainly age, but it's certainly possible that other Others do not, like Richard. But of course, either way, if Widmore learned or suspected Richard perpetually middle-aged, that would be motivation enough, right?
But why try to capture only Linus? Why not try to grab or at least interrogate Richard if Richard holds the secret to aging? That's not to say you might not be exactly right; it's just a potential complication.
I'm a little hesitant to jump on board with the birth overlap notion, merely because the flashes suggest they can co-exist with younger iterations of themselves. (Maybe I've poorly interpreted your idea.)
Feel free to babble more :)
MMD —
Howdy! Yeah... I think it all comes down to whether the exotic matter is there coincidentally, or on purpose. (The same old paths...)
Former: It's necessary because without it, the island could not exist and/or be accessible. The messing with time-travel is just exploiting it for the sake of the narrative (to show past and future and build pot-lines).
Latter: The island is a terra-formed vehicle from, most likely, our distant future, long after we've deactivated our aging mechanisms.
The Little Prince probably fits well with either, right?
Well, who knows, of course... But something must motivate the continuous presence of a group that epitomizes a cult, and is repeatedly threatened by science.
Mike
Mike –
I have a few ideas swimming about in my head that I thought might be interesting food-for-thought. First of all, I think most agree with you that the faith vs. reason (religion vs. science) dichotomy is central to the Lost mythology. In season 5 so far I think that, rather than exploring further WHAT the island is, we are learning where that dichotomy originated and what each side stands for. The most crucial piece of information is that Widmore and (probably) Eloise Hawking were both members of Alpert’s Others. In 2004-2008 we know that Widmore was behind the Dharma initiative, whose stated goal was to manipulate the properties of the island in order to change the values of the Valenzetti equation – probably to manipulate past, present and future events. Mrs. Hawking, on the other hand, was a proponent that events cannot be altered – anything that has happened or will happen was destined to do so. At some point this season I think we’ll see some event that pits Widmore at odds with Alpert over this issue – Widmore will get frustrated that Alpert does not want to use the power of the island to fix some injustice, and then ultimately betray Alpert by taking control of the island from him and pursuing his own agenda with Dharma. Ellie (Hawing) will maybe be sent by Alpert back to the real world to help prepare for the overthrow of Widmore – which they know will happen with the help of Ben and eventually Locke because of the time hopping we are currently seeing. As I think you have already suggested, the entire series of Lost is a closed loop of time paradox where the viewers see the “effect” before the “cause.”
I still think the mirror matter moon theory is at least part of the answer to “what” the island is, but I don’t think the show will ever spend much time on that. The show is about “do individuals have control over the events in their lives, or are they instruments of fate.”
MV
Mike -
You seem fearful that a time paradox is all the show is about. It's not. It can't be. The island is connected to Earth through wormholes (most definitely). That's special. It's outside of our spacetime in some way.
It's not just some place that has negatively charged exotic matter in its bowels.
Well i hope not because that would leave so much unexplained.
RK
Marc —
I snipped two of the highlights from your post...
Widmore will get frustrated that Alpert does not want to use the power of the island to fix some injustice, and then ultimately betray Alpert by taking control of the island from him and pursuing his own agenda with Dharma. Ellie (Hawing) will maybe be sent by Alpert back to the real world to help prepare for the overthrow of Widmore – which they know will happen with the help of Ben and eventually Locke because of the time hopping we are currently seeing.
* Those scenarios sound completely plausible and compelling. I've been thinking Widmore gets banished or tricked into turning the wheel. But, yeah, perhaps he just left to gather an army of mercenaries and scientists. Is he simply selfish or does he want to change some tragic event that occurred before the mid-70s?
The show is about “do individuals have control over the events in their lives, or are they instruments of fate.”
* Absolutely.
RK -
A paradox is quite cool. I'm sure the WHAT of the island will be addressed. It's just a question of to what extent the what dictates the narrative or vice-versa.
For a temporal paradox, the time-shifting (i.e., wormholes) between island and off-island seems unnecessary, as do many elements of the island's history, like Smokey (who is more a dog than a time-cop).
That's not to say everything can't be addressed somehow when you have the potential for time-travel spanning eons.
"Four-toed time-travelers from the future, build me a wheel that will release some of that exotic energy. Just do it. Thanks. Yours truly, Jacob"
I love this blog! Mind blowing theories. I have a couple of questions if you don't mind. Do you find any significance in the fact that Peirre Chang has a prosthetic LEFT arm? Also...you mentioned on one of these pages that the end of the show would have Jack starting at the beginning again. (Please forgive me for butchering this thought....but I found that part late and my mind was blown at this point!) Could you elaborate on your end of the series theory?
Thanks in advance....again, great blog!
Angela
Angela —
Thanks!
Ya know, I don't why I've not included Pierre's arm issue. The way the theory is set up, he would definitely fit on the right/science side. Assuming any of this is at all accurate, maybe it could be a metaphor for giving up a sense of faith (in other words, being utterly and forever a man of science).
The yin yang is closely connected with the notion of cycles, but I still hate the idea that the show will end with the same scene with which it began.
I do like the idea of showing some sort of compliment to the very first shot (it's an opening right eye, as blacklodge pointed out)... so a closing right eye or an opening left eye would work.
Beyond that one symbolic shot, I haven't given much thought to how it would end. I would, however, like a shot that pulls out from the island and into space. Then we can literally see how it fits in with the rest of world. It's invisible for some reason (dark matter or not). So that kind of shot would be interesting.
Some ending with symmetry, balance, justice, etc., would fit well with the idea of duality.
Mike
Have you ever read Stephen King's DARK TOWER cycle?
I won't give it away if you haven't, but ever since last season of LOST (and since reading your blog!) I've really wondered if that was the way the show was going. Thanks for your previous answer!
Angela
Angela —
I haven't... But I do know the basic plot, and I think the writers probably take a lot from the series. I suppose there are some pretty clear similarities. :)
Mike
Mike -
I've been reading this since before Season 4. I just wanted to say hi and tell you I visit it at least once a week during the season to read your updates, if they're there. Thanks for adding the red hilights, big help :-). As the show gets more and more "out there" it's nice to know there are explanations that still make relatively staightforward sense of the show.
Best,
Christine P.
I totally agree that Christian Shepherd turned the wheel in the past. I guess it must have been before Jack was born so prob. 1970's latest.
Z
Okay. I'll bite.
Did you see the preview? "Windows."
"Wormholes were originally thought to let you pass into a mirror universe. The ideas are not really the same, but let's run with it. Plus, Lewis Carroll used an early version of the concept when devising his "looking-glass" world. I'm not thinking of big swirling tubes, but rather **windows**. Passing through one of them flips matter to mirror matter or vice-versa."
Nice call!
So when did Locke fix the wheel? Maybe the island jumped once more and wheel never know.
DT
Christine —
Thank you. Much appreciated. If this all turns out to be way off, I hope you've at least been entertained by it.
Z —
We'll see about Christian and the wheel. I do think we'll be seeing Locke in white shoes and eventually in the cabin. So I suppose one suggests the other, no?
DT —
Thanks. Just lucky use of the term "windows" I think. :) I don't doubt that they refer to wormholes, but, really, who knows what that implies...
Yeah, I'd really like to know when Locke fixed the wheel. We know he talks to the Left Behinders in, probably 2006/07, but when you're shot out might be random, so...
Mike
Mike, you're such a doubter. LOL. ;-) Your theory has been so much more on the right track than the wrong track, so I don't understand it. Anyway I think the connection of Jacob B and the shoes might really be something!
The Other Mike
I might be stating the obvious, but Locke fixed the wheel sometime in the distant past. Remember, when he appeared after the last flash the well had not yet even been dug (Sawyer was left holding a rope that was cut off at the ground). Since the well predated the Orchid (thanks to Juliet's(?) remark about 'find the well'), and the well had not even been dug out at this time, I would suppose that it was far in the far past (perhaps the 1800s) when Locke fixed the wheel.
Wow! You just gave me a serious lost fix as a read this over my lunch. I think the back and forth dominance idea might not work out and might need to be dropped as you mention but otherwise just wow! This could totally be what the island is. I don't believe there is a facet of duality that Lost hasn't toyed with. I was writing a list.
light/dark
white/black
good/bad
yin/yang
science/faith
good side of people/bad side of people
freewill/destiny
heaven/hell
certainty/scepticism
mind/body
dead/alive
Later
The Other Mike —
Lol. Call it healthy skepticism. :)
Rumor has it we'll hear more about footwear soon...
Ryan —
I tend to think you're right about the wheel-fix being in the distant past. But... it's possible DHARMA filled-in the well to block access to the chamber except through the Orchid. So I'm really not sure. And if there was another time-shift, who knows if we'll even find out the year that Locke fixed it. :(
If it was in the past, it would certainly be cool to see the island move and "scoop up" the Black Rock...
Anonymous —
Nice list! Sounds pretty exhaustive to me. I especially like freewill vs. destiny.
I'm agreement re the timeline idea. It was fairly baseless speculation, so the odds aren't really in its favor.
Mike
Hey Mike
Was re-reading a chapter of one of my fave books the other day and it got me thinking about the island's pregnancy problem. In Bill Bryson's 'A Short History of Nearly Everything' he discusses the human body's endurance at different altitudes I quote:
"Moreover, above 5,500 metres even the most wee-adapted woman cannot provide a growing foetus with enough oxygen to bring it to its full term."
Wherever this island is, or appears to be it is not at sea level. IMO
HE —
Ah, but the boat and the ripple seem to contradict this. Not that I don't like the idea. :) I recall Jack's confused recreation of the plane crash in maybe Episode 1. How would the ripple and boat access be explained?
Mike
That Crab Nebulla thing is a real mindblower!
EN
Mike you absolutely have to see the latest preview on Darkufo's site. http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/2009/02/episode-506-316-sneak-peek-2.html
DO you think the island is moving? What's the connection with CS Lewis exactly?
B
EN —
I definitely think it's an amazing coincidence.
B —
I watched it. If only all previews could be that exciting!
I no longer think the island is usually in constant motion. It could, however, be jumping geographically. Just as probable, I think, is that mouths of wormholes that connect to the island open periodically or randomly.
So the windows Hawking mentions would be either the locations of the island over time, or else the locations of the wormhole mouths.
These are the Lewis connections that seem most obvious to me:
* Charlottes S Lewis vs. CS Lewis
* The Lamp Post station
* The producers have said the island is like Narnia; as in a world connected to, but on the other side of, Earth
* Shadowlands -- Foot and Lewis both use the term; Foot in referring to dark mirror matter, and Lewis, most likely, to Earth.
There might be something to this:
The Lamp Post shows you how to return to Earth (the Shadowlands) from Narnia
The Lamp Post station shows you how to return to the island world (Shadowlands, according to this theory).
Mike
Any thoughts on what causes the wheel-turner to be transported off the island?
Marc —
Funny that the poor bastard who lifts the anchor gets thrown overboard, so to speak. :)
I'm sure the "mechanism" is a wormhole. As for the why, I think it's mostly a plot device.
If Widmore turned the wheel, it would explain both why he left and why he couldn't find the island.
If turning the wheel and returning with white shoes in a coffin is a repeating pattern, then maybe it parallels a parable that we haven't discovered. "He who is cast out of heaven must return to achieve eternal life" or something those lines.
Any ideas? Feel free...
Mike
Serious, serious props man!!!
Mike, it looks like our speculation about a month ago that Widmore was the island leader before Ben was dead on. We must be doing something right.
Post a Comment