LOST on Earth's Mirror Matter Moon

Light / YangDark / Yin
EarthDark "Island"
LivingDead
Man-in-WhiteMan-in-Black
Free willDeterminism
FaithScience
OthersDHARMA
Eloise/CharlesAlvar Hanso
Ji YeonAaron
Gods of LifeGods of Death
Temple aboveChamber below
Reality w/ crashReality w/o crash
This theory proposes that Lost is about yin-yang duality. It's about interdependent opposites. Because it connects the light and dark sides of the universe, the island is the epicenter of yin versus yang.

Light/Dark Matter. Mirror matter (also Alice and shadow matter) is a hypothetical form of dark matter. It's similar to the "light" matter we're familiar with on Earth, but its particles exhibit right-handed interactions instead of left-handed interactions, making it the dark mirror twin of our matter. Due to this fundamental difference, the two types of matter are invisible to each other, and they have trouble sticking to each other. An entire hidden, parallel sector of dark mirror stars, planets, and smaller bodies is on the table.

The idea is that a huge chunk of mirror matter landed in the ocean, began drifting, and developed like an island. This drifting "island" seeded the world's earliest cultures with notions like duality, an afterworld, judgment, magical serpents, floating islands, and magical healing. To move between the island and Earth you must pass through a wormhole, which flips your particles' handedness and often shifts you in time. The exotic matter allows these light/dark connections.

Good/Evil. Extremes of "light" and "dark," like self-sacrifice and murder, are explored within the characters. In keeping with the theme of equal opposites, these are often portrayed as morally ambiguous.

Living/Dead. Hurley's gift, Miles' gift, a judgment chamber, a jumping cabin designed by a dying man, a being that mimics the dead... They suggest a parallel land of the dead that is especially accessible on the island.

Light/Dark Gods. To use Lindelof's term, Jacob and his nemesis "personify" the white and black sides that Locke alluded to with those backgammon pieces. Jacob grants life, and favors hope and choice; whereas his dark counterpart behaves like a god of death and the afterlife, and favors pessimism and manipulation. The dark one can manifest as people—and produces things like the cabin—from the land of the dead; otherwise, he appears as pure darkness. The dark smoke being originates from the core of the dark island.

Us/Them. Groups with opposing ideologies are perpetually in conflict on the island. The hyper-faithful Others keep clashing with science groups from the outside: the Jughead testers, DHARMA, Rousseau with her team. This conflict symbolizes actual, destructive ideological polarization on Earth.

Won/Lost. Lewis Carroll's looking-glass world was a giant chess board with characters as pieces; and the light side won. Here, Jacob lost the game in order to win eventual harmony between the sides... Still, the two realities could give opposite outcomes...

For more details, evidence, and comments, see the longer previous version. Many thanks to all who have contributed over the years. If you like mirror matter, note that I wasn't the first to discover it in terms of Lost. Check out Bigmouth's excellent theory. — Mike(NY)




Reflections on Season 6

Feb. 3. So where's home? Earth, beneath the temple, the land of the living, the land of the dead, Heaven, the future, just outside the Crab Nebula? (I doubt it's the other universe, as the split appears to have happened after the "incident.") Was Jacob's death a prerequisite for the MiB's return?

Here's one possible on-island outcome: Jack replaces Jacob, as the universe naturally corrects a light/dark imbalance. The monster is prevented from returning home (assuming he's evil, returning would probably be a bad thing). Thus, it continues, with Jack as the Man-in-White, with all of Jacob's gifts, and the monster assuming John's form in Jack's presence—as the appropriate compliment, just as Esau (who surely died long ago) was the appropriate form to compliment Jacob.

Feb. 4. Juliet's apparent flash-sideways (clearly reminiscent of the consciousness flashing) and Jack's apparently vague sense of recollection suggest that awareness of the parallel universe could develop in more of the characters. Importantly, if they should meet a tragic end in one universe, their consciousnesses might be able to jump ship to the other. This could be nearly literal should the island actually be the monster's ship, LOL.

Feb. 9. Perhaps Lost is about the MiB dealing with his own daddy issues (i.e., shunning by God). That dynamic has certainly been covered enough...

Hmm. Infected by darkness. That's heavily symbolic and keeps the light/dark theme going. Still, it was a bit simplistic after an episode with so much stalling.

Feb. 16. It's hard to know how much of what "Esau" said was factual... Just an island... Right...

Still, it looks like at least part of the endgame is set. "Esau" wants the candidates dead (can he kill them himself?) or else claimed. If he eliminates these "reserves," his side, the dark side, wins and he can return to the land of the living and/or leave the island. But, I assume Jack will replace Jacob and the light/dark stalemate will be preserved, keeping the dark side as corked as it should be.

I do question whether it still makes some sense that Jacob is aiming for the game to end in a draw some time in the future. Indeed, the progress toward the one ending might have just been toward an end in his favor, i.e., victory over the darkness (personified by the MiB).

But I do still think this war is meant to animate the tension between yin and yang; neither of which is superior to the other. If that's true, it can only end in a draw or continue in a stalemate. Or, option c, each wins in a different reality.

To pimp dark mirror matter, perhaps the argument should be: What better playing field than the meeting place between light and dark?

Feb. 17. As lukemh suggests, Jacob could have touched both Jin and Sun in order to effectively touch Ji Yeon. I think that's too clever to be false. So Ji Yeon might indeed spearhead the future of the light side. If that's the case, I think it's safe to assume Jack's demise. Here's hoping a draw via Ji Yeon + Aaron is still plausible.

Feb. 18. Maybe Jacob, or whoever fills his role, being governor of birth and the preservation of life on the island, can flat-out prevent the MiB from fully retaking a living form. With Jacob dead, he now more fully embodies Locke's duplicate. And with the elimination of the candidates, the preventive force will be completely gone, allowing the MiB to be fully restored to life. Is the island, arguably being especially linked to the land of the dead, the only place where that restoration could occur?

Feb. 20. Jacob's death, MiB's victory, or the candidate's ascension on the December, 2007 solstice (the 22nd)? We've discussed how 815, Juliet, the US Army, and possibly Desmond may have all arrived on the September equinox. The Lostpedia timeline puts the arrival of 316 (absent any very large time-shift) in late December, 2007. Depending on the hemisphere, the December solstice is the darkest or lightest day of the year.

Feb. 23. Jacob had a looking glass, David was reading Lewis Carroll (alluding to Jack reading it to Aaron), and there was more apparent cross-over mirror action with the scar. All good, though of course only suggestive. Ten bucks says the baseball belongs (or belonged) to Dogen's son. They might've just planted the seeds of Dogen's on-island backstory.

Feb. 27. For what it's worth, very pivotal moments occurred on the December, 2004 solstice: Jack made radio contact with Minkowski, Charlie died in the Looking Glass, Jack pulled the trigger on John, and Hurley first saw the cabin. I suppose those events were largely dark in nature.

The infection by darkness might be an analog to what could occur if the monster is allowed to move to Earth (assuming that's his intent). The light side presence (Jacob and his predecessors and replacements) keep the chief carrier of darkness isolated on the island and the passageway for the spread of darkness to light plugged. [Cool: Jacob's Creek hits on similar notions here.] I assume the light side must be extinguished from the island before the monster can leave. Curiously, all things here assumed, that would make the dark side of the universe evil in nature.

Feb. 28. Tweaked the Won/Lost bit up top to draw greater attention to a parallel: Carroll's looking-glass world was a giant chess board where black and white sibling kittens transformed into the leading figures of the opposing sides... vs. the island, where dark and light (presumed) siblings became the leading figures of the opposing sides, with the island as a giant chess board. Researching the "Alice" in Alice matter generates an obvious motivation for a massive "game" on the island: "Let's make our looking-glass world a giant playing field too."

Mar. 2. Todd Hostager posts excellent and expansive commentary on his Lost HEMA Theory site. More recent entries are chock-full of mirror matter and mirror-universe material. Check it out. ("DHARk MAtter Initiative" all the way!)

Some pre-show thoughts: Per some discussion with Jason and B.U., the submerged island might have been "flipped" to "light" matter as a consequence of the detonation (or something else). If that's true, it seems reasonable that the island's exotic matter became inert in the process, and, more importantly, the doorway to the dark side shut. If nailing the door shut is a good thing, then we might assume the consciousnesses of the Losties will escape to the "alt" reality upon their death on the island.

Like the button-pushing, the continued presence of the light side might be only a temporary way to plug the breach.

Post-show: For those hoping "Esau" might be the good guy... Well, that ship just sailed.

Curious how Sayid didn't seem to have a "mirror moment." I'm guessing that if refuge is found in the "alt" reality, it's only for the good guys (or those who survive).

I liked the semi-confirmation of the internal good/evil duality, and of "Esau" being associated with all things death. I've changed 'Good/Bad' above back to 'Good/Evil'.

Finally, although Dogen suggested "Esau" is no longer trapped, I think he might still need to sweep the board; i.e., claim or kill the remaining candidates.

Mar. 8. With our discussion about Faustian bargains and whatnot, and a suggestion over email by Kevin C. that the "alt" timeline offers the rewards for such bargains, I began to think Jacob might be well-aware of that lure.

Scenario 42:

Jacob (via Hurley): There's a man... Well... There was once a womb. Well, there was once a pregnant woman... who was sent to this place by my father. She gave birth to twins, myself and [cough], and she died in childbirth. We weren't really sure why she came here, but we worked out our roles... Anyway, my brother will appear to you as John Locke. He can't kill you but he wants you dead.
Jack: Zzzzz.
Jacob (via Hurley): A man will appear to you as John Locke. He can't kill you but he wants you dead.
Jack: Uhuh...
Jacob: He will offer you a bargain: Kill yourself and your friends, and you'll get to live the life you wanted to create with the bomb. When you die your soul will go to that place.
Jack: OK...
Jacob: I want you to do it.
Jack: Huh? Why would I do what he wants?
Jacob: It needs to be you. James is willing, but the reason is important. He'll do it out of self-interest. You need to do it to for the sake of humanity.
Jack: So I'll save humanity and all of this will be over?
Jacob: Sort of. My brother will think it is, and he'll become mortal so that he can leave. But he'll still be trapped here because he overlooked someone. And she's safe off the island.
Jack: Whatever... Save the details for the last possible second, OK?

So mortal "Esau" will be killed. But the light side will not be the victor.
The dark side claimed Aaron in the womb.
Will Ji Yeon and Aaron reach harmony or will the struggle persist between them? And what of the "no-crash" universe?

Mar. 10. So "Esau" might need his own stooge replacement to leave. I think that indirectly supports the idea that Jacob and "Esau" were replacements themselves... that embodiments of light and dark must be continually present on the island to realize the light/dark conflict. I'm not yet sure how easily that possibility can be reconciled with other recent speculation (e.g., would there be any great consequence of "Esau" leaving if "evil incarnate" is left behind in the form of a replacement?).

And no-crash-Ben's time on the island seems to suggest a split did occur when the bomb did/didn't detonate. But that remains a bit fuzzy.

Mar. 12. More speculation:
Abel —> Jacob —> Ji Yeon
Cain —> Esau —> Aaron

In service to his plan to engineer harmony between the next replacements, Jacob vetted both Ji Yeon and Aaron, and intentionally permitted Aaron to be claimed in the womb.

"Esau" insisted that everyone who left be brought back. What he meant: Bring back all of the remaining candidates so I can ensure that they kill one another.
I think it's a replacement that will set him free, but it's the complete elimination of Jacob and his candidates that will allow him to fully resume living form. (The alternative is to fully die, shedding his quasi-dead smoke status; and who would prefer that?) Contrary to Scenario 42 above, Ji Yeon's survival would mean "Esau" would be unable to regain life. The ploy would be to get him to install his replacement before realizing Ji Yeon is the true #42.

BTW, didn't Jeff Jensen suggest a Cain and Abel connection? I think he has yet to expound on it.

Mar. 17. I (and everyone else) look forward to more on MiB's mother and how her claimed insanity influenced the current state of affairs. He's not dead, he says, but is he alive? Or is he in limbo? Did she dupe him after she was claimed? ADD: Might the Aaron/claimed-Claire dynamic follow the same trajectory? [thanks to Jeff Jensen for the meat of that last bit]

The mirror motif is alive and well. Of course, the question of the relationship between the universes remains paramount. But even if we determine their light/dark status, I imagine we'll be left with some ambiguity as to which is superior.

Also, what would the MiB do to the island without the MiW's protection? Destroy it? Sink it? Overtake the light side and upset the balance?

Mar. 21. Some especially ridiculous speculation: "Esau" transformed from human to smoke when he tried to leave via the Frozen Donkey Wheel. The island said, "not so fast, dark one," and all that was left was a sort of dematerialized essence.

Mar. 23. Perhaps Charles wants to capture the MiB on the little island so he can do bad things to the big island without the MiB's interference.

On Ab Aeterno:

1. Looks like the "island is a portal to the dark side which must remain plugged lest the darkness escape and spread (across the light side)" notion is a keeper.

2. Jacob took his body and his humanity. Sounds good; though the actual "taking" part is probably key.

3. Jacob can apparently prevent the MiB from leaving through his will or mere presence alone. Hence, the MiB is almost assuredly planning to have the candidates killed before they can reinstate the no-fly order.

4. Curious that Jacob is actually trying to win over the opinion of the dark one. I think he was saying, "Given that you — the darkness — might eventually escape, I want you to appreciate that humanity does not deserve obliteration. I can find a spark of goodness, you'll see. I'll bring them here to show you. And then maybe you'll reconsider unleashing your wrath."

Outstanding episode, with 2 and 4 being the new meat.

Mar. 24.
Good                               Bad                                  After Bad
           
Merged                           Sealed (submerged?)
     

Mar. 25. Jacob/Esau backstory — Draft 1

A ship from the Roman Empire marooned on the dark island — though it wasn't the first. Surviving were a mother, her twin sons, and possibly some of the crew.

The dark island, indeed the dark side of the universe, is home to a dark — malevolent, from our perspective — immaterial "energy." The mother was "claimed" by it, went crazy, and either abused one of her sons (Esau) or killed herself.

In a ritual that should occur again, Esau and Jacob replaced prior personifications of the dark and light energy (the latter of which is associated with our side). In a sense, they were fused with distilled concentrations of the energy. With his new destructive power, Esau went on a vengeful killing spree and divulged his desire to continue off the island (on our side).

To stop Esau, Jacob killed him (or had him killed). In an immaterial form, the darkness cannot escape to the light side through the wormhole connections that the island provides. Jacob's own life-supportive "light" power enables him to refuse granting life to Esau, preventing him from resuming material form and escaping.

Foreseeing his eventual death, Jacob launched two strategies to avert disaster after his demise. One was to persaude Esau that he is wrong to think the rest of humanity is as corrupted as their mother. And for the other, he sought a replacement — someone who would be able, willing, and present at the time of his demise — to continue denying Esau access to a living form.

But eventually Jacob appreciated that there are only two more permanent solutions: Sever the link (destroy the wormhole connections) or engineer a bond between the next replacements that would counteract the opposition inherent in their roles.

Mar. 28. Semi-spoiler-ish bit from Lindelof follows in white text:   [source]
In a Q&A he suggested that if they had to pick a code name for the finale (not necessarily one particular scene — more the episode as a whole), "the black and white cookie" might be a good one. It was tacked to the end of a response, but it's nevertheless intriguing. The yin-yang symbol obviously comes to mind.

Just thinking that the "Merged" panel above is akin to "live together," whereas "Sealed" is, if it were to end tragically, akin to "die alone."


Endgame — Possibility 1

Behind that locked door in the sub is in fact Ji Yeon Kwon, the real Candidate 42.

Charles has two plans, both of which follow the more permanent solutions of Jacob mentioned above.

Plan A is to trap the MiB on the small island while Charles' team destroys the remaining exotic matter (beside the wheel chamber, at least) on the main island. That would seal whoever remains, including the MiB, permanently on the island, on the dark side. Charles' team will fail, but discussion of the plan will serve to inform the audience as to what happened in the no-crash reality. In that reality, the detonation of Jughead both destroyed the exotic matter, sealing-off the portals, and flipped the island to the light side (without the MiB, who was still in his non-flippable, immaterial form).

Plan B, the fallback plan, is to install Ji Yeon as Jacob's replacement. She will continue preventing the MiB from fully reclaiming material form and leaving. Jack and friends will perish, but they'll live on in the no-crash universe — bitter plus sweet.

Later, Aaron will arrive as the new MiB (having been claimed in the womb, with Jacob's permission), and he and Ji Yeon will reach an accord, or even marry, as the old rumor suggests. (Bigmouth has repeatedly hit on variations of both possibilities.)

[Yeah, for close readers, this bit of crazy-talk uses merged vs. sealed, instead of a reversal in fortunes for Jacob and the MiB across the two realities.]

Mar. 30. So much for Ji Yeon as the package. LOL. There's still hope for her as #42, of course, but there's also the simpler solution where Jack replaces Jacob. The Nerd Squad destroying the pockets, however, still sounds good.

I get the impression that the pockets might sustain the smoke... hence no smoke on the small island? Anyway, it would provide another possible motivation for messing with the pockets: cut the lifeline.

Mar. 31. This place isn't death.

Taking Widmore's comments about the consequences of the MiB's escape as truth, it seems pretty clear that the no-crash reality is not one where the MiB did in fact escape. Had he, we should have expected the eradication of all things good shortly thereafter. Instead, the no-crash reality might be one in which Jacob "wins," or Jacob and the MiB have assumed reversed roles (note BU's comments), or the island/portals were sealed (as above).

April 1. Did you catch Fringe? They just showed what I've been yapping about for too long: A window-like wormhole supported by the Casimir effect connects two sides that exist in parallel. Only here, on one side is Earth, and on the other is a much smaller mass with the island. Looking-glass optional.

April 3. The MiB needs to escort the candidates off the island about as much as he needed to escort Jacob off...
He can't kill them directly (like he couldn't kill Locke or Jacob), and he needs them all gone. Rounding them up will make the job easier.

April 6. I really enjoyed that episode. I guess the security of the universes is up in the air, but it's not very surprising that hovering around death lets memories be exchanged — we already saw that with Juliet. My guess is this special connection will conveniently only affect the main characters... Or will everyone in the world with even a slightly different "alt" life experience this? The episode also seems to firmly plant the idea that the no-crash universe is indeed a result of a split [at some point], with the detonation occurring in the no-crash universe.

April 9. They've been laying on the references to looking-glass worlds, mirror twins, and light/dark duality this season (not that I'm complaining); and so I've stopped cataloging them. In the days of yore, what could've been such references were more oblique, and a common theme was to juxtapose light and dark, with dark on the right or right-hand side (which is where it ought to be for an ideal mirror matter reference). The arrangement of the twin paintings of scales in Widmore's office fits in that category, as the one with the dark frame is on the right-hand side (from our perspective). (Thanks to Anonymous, The ODI's post, and Karen.) Another minor but consistent curiosity is that Jacob was living in the left foot on the Western coast of the island (with West being associated with left and left-hand, of course).

April 13. Turns out the whispers were pretty much what everyone's been thinking they are for quite some time... souls, perhaps in an electromagnetic form, perhaps trapped by the electromagnetic field of the island. Maybe malevolence attracts malevolence? Bad people stick to a bad place?

The island developing upon a core of extraterrestrial dark matter still sounds feasible, I think. It's the peculiar properties of invisibility and detachment from Earth (and some quotes from the producers) that suggest it's a world unto itself. But we'll see...

Abstractly, the MiB is surely as Damon suggested: the personification of "darkness" — presumably death and malevolence. It's a means to express the qualities of the dark side in human terms. But concretely, I think the monster is probably a sentient being from the core of the island (kind of the mirroring monster I described in the previous version, but with more intention and intelligence). The desire to go home is simply borrowed from the memory of "Esau." That he knows the well was dug by hand suggests he could've been around for the entirety of the island's history. (The instrument and scale in the cave suggest Jacob's people would have had or made tools — the well-diggers probably preceded Jacob.) That is, the monster has been watching forever.

April 17. Just added a bit back up top about the smoke being originating on the dark side.

It might be worth revisiting the idea that Jack is the obvious counterbalance to Locke. Hence, Jack ought to be the candidate — if he and fake-Locke survive.

April 20. "The Last Recruit" was an especially unrevealing — though pleasant — episode. Having the candidates leave might be sufficient to allow the MiB's escape, but I'm sill pretty certain their death would suffice.

April 23. So how does one (i.e., Jack) become Jacob-ified? I'd imagine he or she needs to be infused with the light energy, so to speak, as Jacob presumably was.

May 3. In a nutshell:

Two boys are brought to the island in a storm. One eventually replaces the previous MiW and the other dies and is fused with the darkness that is kept at bay by the island, replacing the previous form of the dark one. Like his predecessor, Jacob is empowered to grant life to himself and others, while the dark one is empowered to kill and to mirror the dead. Thus, the MiW is the ideal counterbalance to the dark one.

They understand that this is a cosmic chess game. Jacob aims to preserve the game or else have it end in a peaceful draw. In contrast, if the dark one wins (by eradicating the light side from the board), he can escape and convert everyone from the living to the dead. While looking for a replacement, Jacob has also been attempting to demonstrate to the dark one that humanity is not deserving of annihilation — though this is probably a futile exercise.

That's it, basically. Jack has apparently elected to replace Jacob — and so the story will continue with Jack as the MiW and Locke as the preferred form of the dark one. The dead will live on to some extent when they're transferred to their sideways selves.

What is the island? It's a mysterious place powered by exotic matter, a chessboard for a game between light and dark, and a potential gateway; and perhaps that's all the producers feel need be shared.

If they want to go further, I think a little world of dark matter would suit their needs well, as would the island serving as a bridge between light and dark.

May 4. Well, there you go. He rounded them up for the mass, indirect kill. But who's the straggler (in his eyes)? Desmond, Widmore, Zoe [or Richard, duh]?

May 10. Because the monster tried to kill everyone by surprise, it seems the Faustian bargains we were discussing are probably off the table.

Less than two weeks...

May 11. That was a fun episode, but it was very weak in the details.

Whatever that shiny, light-in-each-of-us stuff is, it's magical. It seems the key to Lost will be Disney-ish magic, not pseudoscience. Not that we couldn't foresee that possibility...

The glowing heart of the world is destroyed —> The light in everyone is extinguished —> Darkness wins

A cork isn't the first metaphor I'd go for — assuming that's all there is to it. (I really hope it's not.)

May 12. A worth-reading post-episode Damon and Carlton interview is here.

May 13. I've managed to translate the incantation Mother spoke during the wine ritual. The syntax is a little rough, but here it is:

"Strong in this one, the source is. Protect the macguffin, he will."

I don't quite get it, but I'm sure it will make more sense after the finale.

/sarcasm

May 14. What I think are fairly obvious predictions about the remaining story:

* Jack will replace Jacob, as he's already shown his commitment. A big part of Across the Sea was to set up the notion of succession.
* The magic light will be in jeopardy. Again, the stakes were just set up. Desmond is obviously pivotal here. (Forget the other pockets around the world. You never heard of them...)
* Jack might fully kill fake-Locke, as Mother's rule might not apply to him.
* The key memories of the characters (especially the dead ones) will continue to be transferred to the Sideways reality.

* And one crazy possibility: If the island is submerged because its light was destroyed, the "enlightenment" of the transferees might re-ignite the island (as the light in each of us is linked to the light of the island), and let it rise again in the Sideways reality.

May 15. If Mother wasn't misinterpreting the light... oh man... I'll probably remember the light-in-the-cave scene as the downfall of Lost — try as I will to repair my impression of the story. It's just too cheesy given the prior intelligent and serious tone of the series. And the because-I-said-so rules from Mother were about as weak a narrative device as one could dream up. I hope Lost snaps back to awesome.

May 18. Questions I need addressed to be satisfied with the show (1-4 are closely related):

1. Is the island sentient or machine-like? Does it hide? Does it recruit protectors? (I'm reminded of Pandora here — perhaps it's a microcosm and analog of Earth. I've been fixated on this of late.)

2. What is the island (if not a living entity)? If it's really a cork of some sort, then "cork" needs to be further defined.

3. What is the glowing stuff? Is it negatively-charged exotic matter from a meteor or eruption? Is it God-stuff, as Mother described? Is it a little of both?

4. What's the deal with the bearings? In other words, how and why is the island so inaccessible?

5. What are the consequences of the escape of the darkness? If the darkness = Smokey, then elaboration is needed on why his escape would presumably be so existentially or metaphysically devastating.

6. (ADDED:) What was/is the fate of Jacob and the monster in the Sideways reality?

For Bonus Points: Why did Damon remark in May 2007 that, "Somewhere just outside the Crab Nebula is where it will all end, geographically." Fully appreciating that it could be a random and meaningless joke, the fact that it is amazingly compatible with the cover of Foot's book has always struck me as remarkable.


On What They Died For. So Jacob needs a candidate to protect the light from Smokey, but Smokey only formed a definite plan to destroy the island when he realized Desmond's potential... There's a problem with the logic there. Nevertheless, the episode kicked butt. [On further reflection and a comment by darkprose, killing the candidates may have been a means to get to the light source. And destroying the light might be the ultimate means to his freedom. How inconvenient for humanity.]


May 21. I want thank you for indulging me with a public forum for this crazy theory and wacky commentary. It's been a very unique and enjoyable experience, and your feedback and clever contributions have been a fundamental part of that.

I'll end with my craziest prediction ever (taken from above):

The island will rise in the Sideways universe. The detonation of Jughead shut off the light, so to speak, and the island sank. As the "light" is reignited in the characters (through the continued transfer of key memories and emotions), the light in the island will in turn be reignited, and the island will rise. Hope floats, or whatever, lol.


May 24. Well...

The Sideways resolution was epically satisfying (emotionally).

The island resolution, on the other hand...


Some final theorizing:

I interpret the light as what allowed the composition of the Sideways dreamworld. It is the atomic building block of the afterworld.

Where this light exists in great concentrations in our world, both worlds intermingle. Think of the island as an intrusion of the afterworld into our world.

Note that freedom from time and space, the presence of the dead, and the ability to control reality by one's will were properties that were shared between the Sideways construct and the island. The island is like a light version of the construct, as it must partially obey our laws as well. Other sacred places, which contain smaller pockets, like Uluru and beneath the church, would likewise be places where the worlds intermingle.



August 18, 2010. And some final whining...

I get the impression that our expectations for the end of the show were at odds with those of the writers. We still wondered, "what the fuck is up with the insane shit that goes on on this island?" while the writers were focused on whipping out their arguably tangential "Sixth Sense" moment in the church. It seems they mistook the early commercial success of the show as validation for the promise of that scene; and they ran with it without appreciating that it could not pay off six seasons of convolutions of what we actually thought held the promise of the show: the story of the island.

Indeed, I and every fan with whom I've spoken, felt the resolution of the main plot was half-baked and obtuse. We found duct tape where we were expecting genuine and polished parts. Give us your prized moment in the church, but don't write-off such wonderfully laid island mysteries with deities, magic light, and a literal plug.

The filler — necessary to sustain such a long show — the cabin, the bearings, the moving island — was so alluring and absurd that we mistook it as being integral to the master plan. When such pregnant material is left to rot, it sadly suggests reckless writing, or worse, intentional baiting. Appreciating that a tight 6-season show is a tall order, the writers did play up the eventually-dangling threads in innumerable media appearances.

So the writers should be heartily thanked for the journey. Not so much for the plot lines to nowhere.

The twist for the encapsulated Sideways narrative softened its rough edges. If only a mature, revelatory plot device could've replaced the subterranean spring of light that burps smoke monsters.

Alas... It was fun. I loved 90% of Lost.

Mike

306 comments:

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Anonymous said...

Looks like you were right on the money with the Shiva Vishnu/Brahma stuff. Nice remake btw sparse but in the right way.

Matt

MikeNY said...

Matt —

Thanks. I still wonder if Jacob would be a combo of Vishnu and Brahma. I think we've been setup for 2 elements, but not 3, though who knows...

I've tweaked a couple things regarding this general area of thought.

Mike

Agent Scully said...

Why John Locke? If Esau needs a dead body for his loophole, why can't he use Christian Shephard's body when Oceanic 815 crashed? Or if not Christian, any other prior dead body that arrived on the island? Why John Locke?

Jason said...

I'm thinking that in this whole spirit of duality thing, yin and yang, opposites and stuff.....

Let's say that Jacob can inhabit people who are alive. He can inhabit their bodies and only influence them in a very subtle way. That would explain Locke's affinity with the island, his regaining the use of his legs, and his ability to know things that are about to happen. (the rain etc....)He uses Locke to help the others (the ones that he touches) to follow the plan of Fate and stay on the island. Jacob does not directly influence people's decisions and he represents Fate. Remember the tapestry?

Then lets say that Esau can only inhabit dead people, and can control them for his own purposes. The only rule he has is that he can not kill Jacob directly. This is why he has to get the body of Locke back to the island and convince someone with free will to kill Jacob (Ben). Esau represents the ability to decide and change things based on your circumstances.

This is kind of a random post of thoughts, I haven't really put a lot of work into it. But I think I may be on to something that others can elaborate on.

MikeNY said...

Scully —

I think the key is that it's the person the Others think is their leader. It's much easier to manipulate Ben into stabbing Jacob when "Easu" is taking the form of someone Ben thinks is his superior. My 2 cents anyway...

He seems to pick who is convenient — like Christian to manipulate Claire, or Yemi for Eko.

Mulder


Jason —

I like it! Please keep going.

For a bit I was thinking that "Esau" could only impersonate the dead and Jacob could only impersonate the living. But then the producers stated that we've never seen Jacob (as himself or another) prior to the finale.

Your idea is much more subtle and frankly is the best explanation I've heard for Locke's healing and psychic-ness. After all, he's really just a dupe, right?

But I think the tapestry reflects what he's done and is hoping for, rather than what he views as fate.

I wonder if Jacob could directly heal "Esau."

Mike

Anonymous said...

Hello!

I remember this from maybe 2 years ago. Seems you've reached the omega point with your ideas. Ha! Though seriously, this is as close I've seen to 100% right. Digging the short version.

Abbadox

Jason said...

So if Jacob can revive people with his touch, perhaps he can ensure their survival of something like a plane crash. Those people who were on Jacob's list were those that survived and weren't supposed to. The tailies were never supposed to survive at all.

MikeNY said...

Abbadox —

Thanks.

Study Latin? (I recall your name from a course long ago...)


Jason —

You're thinking Jacob touched the crash survivors and so they weren't on his list? So, for example, Jack survived because he was supposed to, and thus wasn't on the list.

Very cool. Perhaps the same touch will spare them from Jughead (and goodbye Juliet).

(What did they ever do to those who were on the list and were kidnapped? We've only seen few.)


Mike

Anonymous said...

How can that NOT be what the island is?

Alex said...

Mike,

I like the new distilled version...along way from the version with the spreadsheet coordinates. Following the evolution of your theory is second only to watching the show proper. I think your theory has more legs now than ever before. You say you weren't the first to discover, but what first inspired you to make the mirror matter connection?

Cheers,
Mirror Matter Disciple

MikeNY said...

Anonymous —

I can actually think several other possibilities. But I do have an affinity for this one, of course...


Alex —

It means a lot that you approve of this latest incarnation. I think the theory has finally reached its resting place, if you will.

I think it was the idea of the island being physically opposite (I forget the spark for that idea) —> CPT symmetry —> mirror matter.

Cheers!

Mike

JennyA said...

Hi again Mike!
Psyched for the final season? :)
I'm liking your new home page, concise.

Just saw this today & immediately thought of you. Are you a physicist??

"Many scientists believe dark matter particles will turn out to be proof of a theory called supersymmetry, which predicts that every kind of particle in the universe is paired with a heavier twin. Finding evidence for supersymmetry is one of the major goals of the Large Hadron Collider at Cern, in Switzerland."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2009/dec/17/dark-matter-detected

How *cool* is that??
Kudos! :)) JennyA aka Psibrarian in Portland, Maine

MikeNY said...

Jenny -

Nice to hear from you.

That is extremely cool stuff! Although it seems most physicists assume dark matter of one or many sorts exists, mirror matter seems to be of the lesser-supported variety. Alas, :-)

Supposing, though, that Lost has anything to do with dark matter -- how very apropos that sort of discovery would be!

I'm merely a physics enthusiast. Hopefully the show has turned more kids on to science.

Mike

Anonymous said...

Well it looks like S6 will be all about light vs dark so I could totally see this panning out. Kudos on calling it ahead of time.

MikeNY said...

Anonymous -

Thanks. Maybe with so much light/dark, slipping in dark matter will be natural rather than bizarre.

Mike

Anonymous said...

Mike,

I read this like 2 years ago. Thanks for re-posting this on Dark's site as I haven't read it since then. Excellent, excellent theory. Have you been reading the spoilers? The hangman one is highly relevant to your theory.

Cheers,
John

Anonymous said...

Bloody brilliant!

MikeNY said...

John —

Thanks. Actually, it was that spoiler (the specific content of which we'll leave out) that made me think it was time for a prompt for more feedback.


Anonymous — Thanks.


Mike

Anonymous said...

Thank you. This is a topnotch, thoughtful synthesis. I guess at this point in the game no one can deny that the show is headed the duality direction. Dark matter just makes sense, as you aptly point out. Happy holidays.

Douglas G.

MikeNY said...

Douglas —

Thanks. Appreciated.

Happy holidays.

Mike

Anonymous said...

So what happens if there's a universe were there isn't a crash? Whats the point of it?

MikeNY said...

Anonymous —

In terms of the theory here, I think an alternate universe could be used to illustrate an outcome that is opposite but complimentary to what we'll see in the universe where the crash took place.

I've thought of a few scenarios:

1. the world ends in the no-crash universe while the world is saved in the crash universe.

2. Jacob has lost to "Esau" in the crash universe, whereas "Esau" has lost to Jacob in the no-crash universe.

3. in one universe some people wind up on the "dark" (morbid) side while others end up on the "light" (positive) side. And those outcomes are reversed in the other universe.

etc... but who knows :) Thoughts?

Mike

Anonymous said...

is it just me or does esau have something to do with hurley's ability to see people who died?

and if thats really esau can he only become people who died on the island on earth and only people who died on earth on the island?

the only exception to this that i can think of is hurley's "imaginary" friend from the insane asylum. im assuming that at one point he was alive. he would have died presumably on earth but hurley has seen him on earth and on the island. . .

i dont know if ive missed something through the five seasons but as came across this blog i began to wonder. who knows if it means anything but great job Mike(NY)

nate

cant wait til feb 2!

MikeNY said...

Nate —

Thanks. I really like your idea. We've discussed that sort of thing before, but I think not with that exact scenario, and it's still a very ripe point for discussion IMO.

My current take is that there're probably two distinct forms of apparitions:

Actual ghosts, which might be able to act on their own behalf, and which only certain people can see or hear;

and real, corporeal forms of the dead, which are actually the MiB.

Although the actual ghosts might follow the rules you lay out, there is an exception in Christian's ghost appearing in the hospital.

And although the MiB might need Earth deaths to take corresponding island forms, I'm not positive he can pull-off the opposite (dead on island->ghost on Earth).

Also, there was some discussion about shoe color — actual ghosts with island deaths might always wear black shoes, whereas those with Earth deaths might always wear white. I'm not sure if that holds 100%.

Finally, I think the imaginary friend, Dave, is probably just that.

Thoughts?

Mike

Anonymous said...

thanks mike for clarification its hard to remember way back about other exceptions to the whole MiB hurley thing but your ideas make a lot more sense than what i thought so thanks for your help!

anyways i think there really has to be more to lost than "duality" i feel like it has to have a deeper more concrete message or theme (to go back to high school english) for the audience because this show is truly a work of art and its creators are remarkable artists! i know each individual episode at least way back when with the flashbacks seemed to each have its own theme, but i feel like there has to be a message that the creators are trying to send other than "everything in the universe has pair". i completely agree with you that duality as a motif is very prevalent throughout the series but i think it will come to reveal something much deeper that holds weight in the modern day.

what do you think? is there a "message"? is this show a piece of art or a show for entertainments sake? or have i again brought up something that i missed earlier or something youve already blogged or commented on?

thanks
nate

MikeNY said...

Nate —

Well, on the assumption that duality is a central theme, I think there'd be a message along the lines of "live together or die alone." Religion and science, East and West, rightwing and leftwing... I think the point would be that the choice is harmony or isolation paired with the risk of mutual destruction.

If there are two realities, with one ending in doom and the other in peace, I think they could make a pretty strong comment on polarity in the modern world.

lol! Or, you know, something less over-the-top. Any non-polarity ideas?

Mike

Anonymous said...

Have you seen to the latest spoilers on DarkUFO's blog? One is especially interesting!
Erin

MikeNY said...

Erin —

Yup. Thanks. And, finally, it is. :-)

Mike

Anonymous said...

hi i have a question i have gone back to watch every season before the start of the last one and i cant understand how walt shows up on the island to locke after ben pushed him in the dead dharma people pit. . . walt isnt dead so he cant be a ghost or whatever every other dead person is who shows up on and off the island so is he just in johns imagination?

MikeNY said...

Anon —

I think taller ghost Walt wasn't in John's imagination. These are the top contenders for me:

1. Walt is special because he can make birds crash and project himself through time and space. Add the ability to change form, and this is like an ability the MiB might have.

2. Walt is special because he can be used as if he were dead by the MiB despite being alive.

3. The MiB can appear as anyone, whether living or dead. Ghosts are just much better for manipulating people.

I like 1 or 2.

Mike

Anonymous said...

More light/dark stuff on Dark's site. I won't be specific to honor your note about comments.

J

MikeNY said...

J —

Thanks. That is cool. It's a very strong theme, and I do wonder if light and dark matter are a part of it.

Mike

Anonymous said...

I agree with Alex. I believe your theory has come to the point where it's in a sort of harmony with the show's core principles. As one of the anonymous commenters said "how can this NOT be what the island is?"

Alyssa

MikeNY said...

Alyssa —

Thank you for the kind words.

For the record, I'll be skeptical until the end.

Mike

Anonymous said...

If this is what Lost is then the show is indeed a work of art!

MikeNY said...

Anon —

Thanks. I trust I'll love whatever they pull-off.

Mike

Anonymous said...

I read your previous version. It's great. One thing I find really awesome is how Hurley crashes through a bunch of looking glasses -mirrors- right at the middle-point of the series. I had to watch it again to see it but sure enough there they were. Tons of them! LOL!

-S

MikeNY said...

S —

Thanks. It is pretty peculiar with the mirrors, any way you slice it.

Mike

Anonymous said...

That's amazing how much shorter you've made it. Still kicks butt and it's compelling as ever.

Anne

MikeNY said...

Anne —

Thanks. Glad you think the short form still works.

Mike

Anonymous said...

Did you see the preview where Jack smashes a mirror?

MikeNY said...

Anon —

I did. Thanks.
Any mirror stuff is always a plus...

Mike

Anonymous said...

I had the same thoughts about John and his ability to use his legs..at first I thought.John died in the crash and this is when Esau entered his body. Instead, somehow Esau was working to keep John around until he could fit his plans. So, a partial use of John by Esau, 'healing' him enough to get him walking and in tune with the island, establish a relationship with Ben, but not a complete take over until everything was ready and John was dead.

Also, John lost his ability to use his legs a few times (on the way to the plane with Boone) and John continually had injuries to his legs (wood spike, the door, and break when falling into the wheel area). Maybe this was Jacob trying to stop but Esau's use of John?

Last thought, Rose was also 'healed' when she got to the island...so is/was Rose inhabited or healed by Jacob? It would help with the ying/yang black/white male/female duality.remember Rose's visit to the psychic? More clues?

~Melanie (it's been awhile)

Anonymous said...

OK, my bet is this is 95% correct.

Thom

MikeNY said...

Melanie —

I really like your tug-of-war idea about Locke's spine. I've always wondered why his legs gave out at that moment (it does precipitate Boone's death, for what it's worth). Your explanation would do it justice.

Are you suggesting Rose was healed to compliment the healing of Locke (male complimenting female)?


Thom —

Your odds far exceed my own. But thanks very much for the vote of confidence. :-)


Mike

Anonymous said...

In a way yes - somehow embodying Jacob's healing life force, which could become more important to revealing his phoenix like rise from the ashes/fire in season 6. This could be the inspiration for why Rose and Bernard wanted to hide away, until Jacob was ready? The psychic healer Isaac (Jacob's fathers name in the Bible) told Rose she would be healed but wasn't in the right place yet. So, could be she is on the light side with Jacob, perhaps helping his transformation in the way Locke somehow helped in Esau's plan (unwittingly?).

Rose also had a conversation with Locke on the beach saying something like 'we both know this island is different' in reference to Locke's leg healing quickly and her being healed as well.

:)

Melanie

MikeNY said...

Melanie —

Sounds totally reasonable :-).

The more I think of Jacob's resurrection, the more I think it ought to be in Jack (somehow). Perhaps he is beginning to develop his healing touch, as maybe demonstrated with Sayid.

Mike

Anonymous said...

One last bit
but it might be a spoiler. Anyway to send you something directly?
Melanie

MikeNY said...

Melanie —

Unless it's a huge spoiler, you can just reference it indirectly. Or you can email me:
mikeny4@gmail.com

Mike

Anonymous said...

This is awesome! It sounds perfect. Thanks for sharing!

-Anne

Jason said...

Jacob and Esau were banished to the island thousands of years ago. They can use their powers any way they wish but can not kill the other directly. Esau wants to kill Jacob so that he can "Go Home" and end their endless game. They use men as pawns. Jacob believes that man is inherently good. He touches people in order to bring them to the island and prove this. Esau believes that man is bad, and doesn't want them around at all. Jacob has brought men to the island throughout history, and that is why there are differing pieces of civilizations spread all over the island. "It always ends the same, everything else is progress."

Esau has formed a plot involving the Dharma people, who Jacob brings to the island in the 70s. He uses his ability to inhabit the dead and turns a member of Dharma (Ben) into someone who will kill Jacob for him. He hatches the whole plot involving Locke being the new leader in order to make Ben hate Jacob even more. This leads to Ben killing Jacob.

Widmore and Hawking are two people who want to own the island for their own purposes. Their entire plan is thwarted by the time traveling of the Losties. They hatch a plot involving Daniel, raising him for the sole purpose of figuring out how to make it so that the Losties never make it to the island.

The current plot involving the Losties does not involve more than one timeline. Instead, the bomb never worked, but another event later does cause the reset that we are watching now. Somehow after the reset, the Losties end up together again after the reset and return to the island. This time with a surgically healed John Locke at the hands of Jack.

The ending is the beginning as the Losties begin their journey again. The first scene of the show plays again and then the show ends.

MikeNY said...

Anne —

Thanks.


Jason —

Sounds great! I think I'd only really question the claim about Daniel. IMO, his purpose (with the help of Eloise) was to ensure the causal loop stayed intact. Not yet sure about Widmore's ultimate plan...


Mike

Anonymous said...

So the power of the spring dissipates when Jacob is killed. Fits with Jacob = Life. Nice...

Matt

Anonymous said...

I've posted a few messages here in the past. I work in the "industry" and I know a few people connected with LOST. Yesterday I had lunch with one of these people. She asked me if I wanted to know how Season 6 would end.

No one was more amazed than me when I quickly answered "NO". After 5 years of LOST fun, I just couldn't cheat myself.

I do agree with one of the recent posts though...I think Jack will fix John's spine for him, and I think Juliet II is alive with Sawyer II.

RyanKY said...

Mike, I just read an excellent theory from DarkUFO about how the show will work itself out throughout the course of its final season and wanted to share it with you. It's easier to provide you with the link but here is the gist:

"Basically the idea is that the off island alternate we are seeing right now is going to be the result of what happens on the island this season... not the result of Juliet hitting Jughead."


http://theoriesonlost.blogspot.com/2010/02/why-island-is-underwater-by-lostnnc.html

Let me know what you think.

RyanKY

MikeNY said...

Matt —

Yeah, I think Jacob sort of powering the spring is pretty compelling.


Anon —

Good call. I think the "journey" is what it's about (though I do like spoilers, lol).

There would something pretty powerful about Jack healing Locke (versus trying to shoot him on the island).


Ryan —

Hi. Thanks. I just read the theory. Kind of like "Reset, Take 2." I like it and I think it's very clever. I think the beauty of it is that it provides a way to reconcile the two realities. I do wonder why Jack wouldn't end up in Tunisia, but I think the show is flexible enough to accommodate that sort of change.

The split has merit, as a detonation in the "crash" reality might have created a monumental paradox. So I'd certainly not (yet) adopt one scenario over the other.


Mike

Anonymous said...

Hi Mike, What do you mean about MiB's home being the land of the living?
J

MikeNY said...

J —

I think one of the many possibilities is that he's dead. He might be a god of some sort, but he's stuck only impersonating others. Perhaps he wants to live again — whether being reborn, inhabiting the body of someone living, or reclaiming his original body (in the temple?).

Mike

Anonymous said...

Hi Mike
This is what I wanted to send earlier. I'm pretty sure Charlie is 'in' Sayid now - his voice sure sounded like Charlie (noticed night of the show but didn't know if it was a spoiler?).

And, another black/white reference in physics: from an explanation by Michio Kaku, Black holes suck matter in, comes out the other side and that is a white hole, or big bang, and these two universes have an umbilical cord of some type still attached. They are parallel universes. Here's a video where he talks about this.

And Jacob is the life force for the spring, another way to heal beside his touch. Once he was 'dead' the spring was no longer able to heal properly, and like they said there would be 'risks' to use it. While trying to heal Sayid, Charlie momentarily died on the plane in the other universe before Jack revived him. So in that moment when Sayid drowned, Charlie came through. Also Charlie had previously died by drowning on the island.

Video with Michio Kaku, watch around 1:44
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxvF3K83g8Q&feature=related

And read this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_hole

Not sure what if anything is going on with black/white hole thing, but might be something.
~Melanie

Anonymous said...

Have you seen this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-1qzelSWpE

MikeNY said...

Melanie —

Thanks. Interesting speculation about Sayid and Charlie. I tend to go for the more boring approach — that Sayid is still Sayid — but I think we'll find out tomorrow.

It's funny you should bring up black holes and white holes. That's related to the reasoning about having to pass through a wormhole to flip "handedness."

Check out this other one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-orientable_wormhole

(Warning: They seem to be a bit sloppy with the terms.)


Anon —

Yes, I have. It's fascinating to see what they meant to change and how good they were at mimicking what they didn't.

Thanks.


Mike

eve said...

Hi Mike, long time reader and fan of this site. It reminded me of something when you said that Flocke was maybe a "god," and wanted to go home or to somehow actually inhabit a body. When Ajira crashed and there was Flocke looking out at the ocean, I thought, that Locke must be so happy to see his home again. But then when he was eating the mango, and even though I thought the same thing, it still seemed a little eerie to me. He seemed to so relish that mango. Now, I'm thinking that since this was actually Flocke, he was enjoying these things as a human does and it had been a long time since he felt this way. I do think that Flocke or the MM (reminds me of mystery meat at camp), and Jacob are some kinds of Gods, or fallen angels. What someone said about the water being dirty because Jacob had died, well, now that we know that Flocke is Smokey, why not Jacob having some "water connection?"

MikeNY said...

Eve —

Hi there! Thanks for stopping by.

I remember too that "fLocke" seemed totally absorbed in the mango. But, I've been assuming that the MiB/monster was also playing the role of (at least) Christian. So, despite his apparent sincerity with the mango, I think that could have been a ruse. Presumably, he could have eaten one if he were Christian. Still, there's something odd about that scene...

Do you mean Jacob would have a water connection because it's considered an opposite of fire (and, by extension, smoke)?

Come to think of it, there was an episode called "Fire + Water," which happens to have some serious Christian imagery:
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Fire_%2B_Water

Mike

eve said...

Mike,

Good point about Christian. I guess I got ahead of myself for a moment, since I also think MM was playing the role of CS. I guess TPTB were really trying to make us believe this was really Locke returned to his beloved island. The mango scene also reminded me of Locke in S1E1? when he was eating an orange, then smiled wide and the orange was covering all his teeth. That was so, so weird. You gotta love this show! And yes, that is what I mean about the fire and water elements. I just read your Feb.9 posting. Wow, that is certainly a unique theory that would tie in with everything we've learned so far.

MikeNY said...

Eve —

Yeah, definitely reminiscent of the orange. Good point.

It looks like upsetting the balance can corrupt the goodness of the spring. Interesting to think about that with respect to the fire/water notion...

Mike

Anonymous said...

Question I have, is if this season is about the here and now, both on the island and off, and no more time travel...how are we going to find more info on Adam and Eve? Is it still believed to be Rose and Bernard? Where are they in the current timeline on the island?

MikeNY said...

Anon —

I'm sure Miles will get cozy with their bones.

Yeah, I think Rose and Bernard are a decent bet. There are a bunch of other candidates, of course, but as you note, those two aren't accounted for.

Of course, if it is them, that raises the potentially tasteless comparison between the stones and their skin color...

Mike

Jason said...

Is it possible that Jacob's "touch" and MIB's "infection" are related? As in how they choose "players" for their side? Perhaps MIB doesn't inhabit the dead, he merely "infects" them.

Jason said...

Except for the case of Locke. Perhaps there is a special circumstance that allows MIB to inhabit him directly. Perhaps the breaking of the ash circle around the cabin and the release of MIB himself?

Jason said...

Sorry for the multiple posts, but I've been obsessing about this show a lot lol.

I had an idea a LONG time ago(circa end of Season 3/beginning of Season 4). I didn't go into many details like I am below, but I had a vague idea about the repetition of events. I wanted to revisit and speculate on it.

I had the idea that what we are seeing on the island has happened many, many times. Hundreds, perhaps thousands of times. The iterations of Rousseau's message in S1EP2 are a clue for this. Each time the loop occurs, small things are changed, but each time WHH, and it always ends the same. "It always ends the same, everything thing else is progress". This explains small changes (like young Ben's bullet wound suddenly changing position, among other things). Jacob and MIB are playing a game, each trying to outdo the other in some way each time through.

Perhaps Jacob has MIB trapped in this loop, and the only way to end it is by killing Jacob? "Do you know how much I want to kill you?"

The beginning and ending of the island, and everything that happens in between are all repeating. This explains the sense of deja-vu that seems to occur with all of the characters (i.e. Locke knowing when it's going to rain). The whispers are echoes of previous loops. Each time through, our characters remember slightly more than the previous one.

This may also explain why Desmond is "special". He is the only person who's past, present, and future can actually change during the events of a single loop. When Daniel forces Desmond to come outside the hatch, Desmond wakes up many years later and suddenly remembers it.

What we are witnessing off the island now with the Losties landing at LAX is the final iteration. The island is sunk in 1977 by the bomb, and 815 never crosses the "bubble" around the island that causes it to crash. This explains the sense of deja vu they are all experiencing when interacting with each other. What we are witnessing on island now in 2007 is leading up to the end of the final loop.

MIB's "loophole" not only refers to his physical possession of Locke and Ben killing Jacob, but also the destruction of the island and the end of his game with Jacob. Notice the word "loop"? Perhaps the "loophole" refers to finding a way to end the loop and "go home".

The people in the Temple are immune to all of this time travelling business. What they are worried about now is they have noticed that there is a HUGE difference this time around, and are unsure of the consequences.

I'm sure there are many holes in this, and I'm not sure how it's going to end. Possibly the LAX Losties end up back together and somehow save the island. Or we may just be witnessing the Series Finale (end of the loop, LAX landing) over the course of all of Season 6.

MikeNY said...

Jason —

I love that idea of each having their own means of claiming sides! It seems pretty certain Sawyer is turning "dark" on his own. Let's see if he has or will be infected.

My guess is that the monster has always had the ability to duplicate the dead. The appearance of Christian before Locke died suggests to me that he's pretty much always been able to do so with few constraints.

I think a lot of people have come onboard the loop idea... I haven't heard your take that the LA X timeline is the final iteration. I like it! My trouble has always been, as you allude to, in the figuring out how all of the iterations fit together, how the iterations start and end, etc.

Mike

Anonymous said...

"What better playing field than the meeting place between light and dark?"

Couldn't agree more!

M.

Mary said...

Has it been established that the Island-time is 2007, or could it be 2004, and these events in the flash-sideways are happening at the same time?

I apologize if this is being discussed already--I haven't read everything--I'm just trying to catch up. Thanks for humoring me. Great, great theory Mike; I've been following this Mirror Matter Moon for years.

MikeNY said...

M —

:-) We'll see... Thanks.


Mary —

I think the best evidence for 2007 is that Richard said Locke had been gone for 3 years. That's good enough for me, at least.

Thanks for humoring me for all of that time. It's been a great little side hobby.


Mike

Jason said...

In support of the dark matter moon idea, could the bomb in 1977 have knocked the moon off its orbit and that's why the island is underwater in the LA X timeline?

MikeNY said...

Jason —

Yeah, that's basically what I had in mind as a place-holder for something more specific. Optionally, the whole island mass could flip handedness at the same time... flipping the island from dark to light and permanently lodging it in the ocean floor at that spot.

I also thought that, if the island were a ship of sorts, the detonation might have destroyed some sort of levitation engine... as cheesy as that might sound. But the feel of the show seems to be moving away from the island-ship notion.

Thanks for raising the idea. After all, islands don't (a) move or (b) actually sink hundreds of feet after a nuclear blast. Right?

Mike

Ricky said...

Since Jacob could clearly leave the island and "Esau" can't...to me it looks more than good vs. evil fight for balance.
Jacob was the warder of "Esau", his purpose was both protect the island and keep the bad guy locked on there:
now he's gone (for good?) and he needs a substitute, to be chosen among the usual bunch. I point to Jack too (or maybe the surviving Locke..).
Thinking about this, "Esau" did something really nasty to be banished big time like that: what if he indeed isn't Esau, but someone even older: Cain, the first son of Adam & Eve, who was the first murder.
He was human (like he says in The Substitue) and looks like he was banned...
Here's a quote of God speaking to cain after he murdered his brother Abel:

"What have you done? Listen! Your brother's blood cries out to me from the ground. Now you are under a curse and driven from the ground, which opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand. When you work the ground, it will no longer yield its crops for you. You will be a restless wanderer on the earth." (Gen. 4:10–12)

MikeNY said...

Ricky —

Thanks for the info. Yeah, I've been thinking about Cain and Abel since Jensen's recap. I really like how, being the first Biblical pairing (after Adam and Eve), they could be the progenitors of the conflict.

Here's what I've been thinking:

Cain (or Abel) becomes monster
--> Cain takes form of Esau
--> Cain takes form of Locke (and is killed again)
--> takes form of Aaron

Abel (or Cain)
--> replaced by Esau
--> replaced by Jack (or maybe Ji Yeon)
--> if not already, replaced by Ji Yeon

Cain knows of the risks of the candidates, because the MiW has transferred his power to a successor before.

Eh, maybe? ;-)

Mike

Mary said...

"Maybe Jacob, or whoever fills his role, being governor of birth and the preservation of life on the island, can flat-out prevent the MiB from fully retaking a living form. With Jacob dead, he now more fully embodies Locke's duplicate. And with the elimination of the candidates, the preventive force will be completely gone, allowing the MiB to be fully restored to life. Is the island, arguably being especially linked to the land of the dead, the only place where that restoration could occur?"

Hmmm, perhaps that is the real reason why babies cannot be born on the island? Because of the risk that MIB could overtake it? It might have something to do with innocence; a baby is "clean" of sins.

Anonymous said...

So I get why Ji Yeon would be on the light side but what about Aaron being on the dark side?

MikeNY said...

Mary —

Yeah, I think it's either Jacob preventing the births, or radiation from the detonation (if that indeed occurred in that timeline). I think your reasoning on the former makes excellent sense. I wonder what would prompt him to suddenly curtail all births. Paranoia after some frightening event? Or maybe just the select few—whose destinies he can foresee as being safe—are allowed to be born.


Anon —

The reasoning started in prior versions of this theory. The argument was that there is a dark/science faction whose leaders are born on the island and then moved to Earth, and a light/faith faction whose leaders are born on Earth and move to the island. Aaron fits the mold for a dark leader.

I'm not sure that that stuff still holds up, but check out these (thanks to Bigmouth for locating them):
http://eyemsick.blogspot.com/2008/01/star-of-jacob.html
http://eyemsick.blogspot.com/2008/04/lost-bible.html

They're compelling arguments for Aaron being special, maybe even evil, in a Biblical sense. And don't forget that he might have been resurrected in Claire's womb.


Mike

Anonymous said...

Man, I remember reading this 2-3 years ago. Everything is in place to reveal the island as Earth's moving dark little sister planet. Let's see what happens come May!

Thomas

MikeNY said...

Thomas —

We'll see. Though even for me the idea remains fairly out there :-)

Mike

Jason said...

Could the hatch possibly be a replication of the island created by Dharma to further understand how the island works? The inputting of the numbers into the computer in order to contain a destructive force reminds me of Jacob "inputting" people (represented by numbers) onto the island in order to contain MIB?

MikeNY said...

Jason —

Dude! Very clever analogy. I wonder if that was planned.

Mike

Anonymous said...

Just stopping by for my weekly mirror matter fix.

Here's something that might be a contribution. You pointed out in your previous versions that the DI logo was the inverted King Wen (which is also Later Heaven). This page talks about some cool symmetry stuff in the King Wen sequence.

I can't wait to see what's up with the mirror!

Chris

Anonymous said...

Whoops!
http://iching.egoplex.com/pairsymmetry.html

Anonymous said...

Hey Mike!

Longtime fan "hearingvoices" here. Nice work consolidating all your research and insights! Hope you're enjoying S6?

I'm back to posting now and again on the Fuselage, FWIW. Still enjoying the show, but taking a more passive approach to theorizing.

Be well!

K|:-)

MikeNY said...

Chris —

That's very cool indeed! Thanks for sharing. I must admit I don't quite follow the guy's argument, but I'll take him at his word about the hidden symmetry.


HV —

Great hearing from you! I noticed you in my occasional perusings of the forum.

As you can gather, I haven't had a new concept for the show since...

You should leave some wisdom on BM's blog. The community there is really blossoming.

I'll be on the lookout for another "Casimir Island." :-)


Mike

Jason said...

The mirror is a gateway between worlds. It is how Jacob can travel to and from the island.

When Jacob says "they are coming", he is talking about the six people represented by the numbers in his cave. They are coming from the current "LA X" timeline. He wanted Hurley to turn the dial to 108 so that they all come at the same time.

Wonder what will happen when the six 2007 "numbers" meet up with the LA X "numbers"?

Anonymous said...

They really beat us over the head with the looking glass allusions, didn't they... :-)

Chris

MikeNY said...

Jason —

I really like the idea that he's trying to unite the two (presumed) versions. Could the LA X versions cross-over (because the island is submerged in their world) or might the islanders leave in such a way that they cross-over to the LA X world in the process?

I saw the mirror more as means of "remote viewing," maybe of the entire worldline of the 360 individuals. It might serve as a means to identify the ideal moment to touch them.


Chris —

That they did. I'm sure it's not a coincidence that Jack name-dropped the black and white kittens.


Mike

Jason said...

Three mirrors, three different timelines?

MikeNY said...

Jason —

Oh dear. I really hope it's only 2 :-)

Jason said...

We have seen the black ash and black smoke. Both come from something (or someone) being burned.

Will we see white smoke and white ash? Is this why Ilana gathered the ash from the fire that Jacob died in?

Did the corporeal form of MIB die the same way Jacob did?

Anonymous said...

If this isn't what TPTB have in mind they sure are setting it up quite nicely! ;-)

S

MikeNY said...

Jason —

I'd love to see dead jacob as a white smoke monster. That would drive home their opposite but equal status.

If we do, I think your speculation about the death will prove very prescient.


S —

They are indeed. I think.

It's extremely hard for me to not draw the connections. So I'm a poor judge.


Mike

Anonymous said...

Well, there you have it. Every one and their uncle is talking about mirror worlds and mirror timelines and mirror universes!

~Jen

MikeNY said...

Jen —

Thanks. Granted, the show was all about looking glasses, so... :-)

Mike

Anonymous said...

Mike:

Great site! I've also looked at the 'Lostisagame' site, and he derides scientific theories like yours as simply 'diversionary' by Darlton, implying that all other 'theories' than his are a waste of time. Your thoughts?

Anonymous said...

Did anyone notice that Jack's son played the same piano song that Faraday did as a child?

Todd Hostager said...

Mike:

Sorry I neglected to mention your site in my recent "Mirror Matters" posting on the HEMA site. I've added a link to your site on that posting.

Keep up the good work!

Todd Hostager

MikeNY said...

Anon —

Thanks. I'd say the odds are in favor of an explanation like that of the FDW. It's highly fictional, but still throws a bone to science for a touch of plausibility.


Anon —

Didn't notice that. Creepy. Intentional or lazy?


Todd —

Thanks. You've peaked my curiosity. If it's anything like what I've read of yours before, I'm sure it's excellent.


Mike

Jason said...

Sorry, I messed that up. Here is the full version...

The struggle between Jacob and MIB reminds me of my favorite time travel story of all time, the Legacy of Kain video game series.

MIB's loophole reminds me of these lines spoken by the games' main characters....

Kain: Thirty years hence, I am presented with a dilemma... let's call it a two-sided coin. If the coin falls one way, I sacrifice myself and thus restore the Pillars... but as the last surviving vampire in Nosgoth, this would mean the annihilation of our species... Moebius made sure of that. If the coin lands on the reverse, I refuse the sacrifice and thus doom the Pillars to an eternity of collapse. Either way, the game is rigged.

Kain: There's a third option, a monumental secret hidden in your very presence here. But it's a secret you have to discover for yourself. Unearth your destiny, Raziel. It's all laid out for you here.

Raziel: You said it yourself, Kain... there are only two sides to your coin.

Kain: Apparently so, but suppose you throw a coin enough times... suppose one day, it lands on its edge.

MikeNY said...

Jason —

Nice! That reminds me of the MiB's offer to James.

I take from that the notion of iterations ending in a final draw.

Mike

lostmio said...

hey Mike,
After watching Sundown, I just gave you a shout-out re mirrors and meteors, over at eyemsick.

Anonymous said...

hey mike-

here's my take on tonight's show:
-the LA X timeline is Esau's timeline. History is rewritten without Jacob's touches. The Incident may well be the moment of splitting since we do see the DI village on the sunken island.
-The timeline we have been watching S1-S5 is Jacob's timeline.
-Esau offers characters what they want/what they perceive to be missing from their lives: Aaron for Claire, innocence for Kate, a break with the past for Said, etc. This is what they get in the Esau timeline. The cost of this is doing something evil for Esau, Faustian bargain. However, I think we're seeing that these fixes are not as important as the characters expected. Rather, their personalities and decisions continue to drive the shape of their lives.
-Conversely, Jacob offers characters a chance at personal redemption - not necessarily by rewriting the past and giving them the things they feel they are missing, but rather (I think) by bringing them to the island, allowing them to play a role in something larger than themselves and giving them room & time for introspection; he gives them a healing location where they can wrestle with and perhaps conquer their own demons. I do not believe that his "pushes" force the characters through a set of decisions that make them miserable, as they seem to carry many of the same fundamental flaws in Esau's push-free timeline. Rather, I think it is some magical marking (or some goofy take on quantum entaglement) that allows them to cross over to the island at some point (past or future) where they can live out their struggle for redemption. Like Esau, I think he promises something very emotionally significant (Dogen's son being healed). Rather than having to do something evil for selfish gain though, the bargain comes with terms of some personal sacrifice (Dogen not being able to see his son), having to work through one's redemption (template = Charlie's Moth episode) and having to do some work for Jacob/the greater good (Dogen having to be the temple master). But this version of bargaining relies very heavily upon the characters' internal processes/choices and their selflessness winning out, rather than Esau's giving them their dearest wishes.
-In terms of my email to you from last week, I feel that both Jacob's timeline, which Esau has pretty convincingly started to tear apart, and Esau's LAX timeline, will interact to give some 3rd timeline that we don't necessarily see but see the beginning of (e.g. Jack wakes up on island). I think this interaction is the role that Jacob has for Jack - while Esau is busy granting everyone the things they desire and converting them to his side, Jack exists in the LA X timeline with some lingering confusion.
-I think the war that is coming (mentioned by Widmore and Bram) was not just a fight for the temple or even the island but perhaps a conflict between Jacob's and Esau's timelines. The way the chips fall with the candidates will help determine who ultimately writes history. I think Jack will play some major role in causing Esau's LA X reality to unravel (at the expense of, like Dogen, not being able to see his son again) and thus give rise to some (final? stable?) new timeline.

-BU

MikeNY said...

lostmio —

Thanks. Nice catch on the connections! They do have an unusual number of refs to meteors and asteroids, don't they.

I usually peak over there... hopelessly hoping that they've posted their recaps early. ;-)


BU —

I think you've really crystalized the dichotomy via selflessness vs. selfishness. If the LA X timeline is a consequence of siding with the latter, should we expect some sort of moral punishment for their choice?

I'm still attached to the idea of preserving balance, but the more they cement "Esau" as literally evil incarnate, the more it seems he must lose. Thus, I'd expect that if you're right about LA X being his timeline — and I suspect you are — then that timeline must end tragically to maintain the moral integrity of the show.

I like Jack as the lynchpin. Makes sense. Perhaps the show ends with Jack making a choice between the two timelines?

Of course that 3rd timeline you suggest (I'm assuming merged in some respect) could restore and preserve the balance. Indeed, if each unravels, the 3rd seems like a natural fit.


Mike

Jason said...

If the Smoke Monster/Cerberus/MIB is some kind of protection or defense system for the people on the island, what happens when there is nothing left to protect?

Jason said...

I am ripping this off of another person, but I found this extremely interesting....

A baseball (being showed and referred to quite a bit this season) is constructed the following way:

A baseball has ONE seam made up of 108 DOUBLE stitches that create ONE loop that seems like TWO parallel loops. This loop makes TWO halves that fit together like yin and yang. The stitches holding it together. The first and last stitches of a baseball are HIDDEN.

The seam is the timeline.

Also...the writers of LOST are huge Yankee fans:

Check this out:

ALL of the NUMBERS are retired Yankee player numbers : 4... Lou Gehrig 8...Yogi Berra 15...Thurman Munson 16...Whitey Ford 23...Don Mattingly 42...Mariano Rivera

MikeNY said...

Jason —

Interesting question — though I'm seeing him now more as a threat than a protector. But whether he needs to kill or defend, once there's no one left, I assume he'll absolutely be free.

Mike

MikeNY said...

LOL — just crossed paths. Crazy coincidences with the baseball and players? Cool either way. The stitches thing is pretty extraordinary.

Jason said...

I'm starting to look at it like this. Jacob, for some reason or another, brings these people to the island and completely alters the course of their lives.

MIB is there as sort of a protector, or "course corrector" for Jacob's timeline.

Once there is no more Jacob and no more timeline or people to "protect", MIB can finally leave the island.

Jason said...

The taking of physical form and killing everyone that Jacob has "touched" is the loophole that will finally set MIB free.

MikeNY said...

That's great!

He's the counterbalancing force against Jacob's machinations. Once done, he's free. Very elegant.

Jason said...

One good question to be answered though, why was it necessary for Dogen to be killed in order for MIB to get into the temple? What was special about him?

MikeNY said...

Something tells me they won't explain it, or they'll just say it was rule — which would of course be lame.

Jason said...

Here is something I've been mulling over for a few years.

I got the idea a while back that what was happening on the island was actually affecting the flashbacks we were seeing. The "whooshing" sound you hear before a flashback gave me the idea. It just gave me a sense of "cause and effect". Something happens and "whoosh" here is the result.

I know the flashbacks didn't always coincide with what we were watching on island at the time, but if that were the case it would have been obvious from very early in the series. They are cleverly mixed in at different and unrelated points of "on the island" time.

What if the LA X timeline we are watching now is what originally occurred before Jacob's "touching". All of those who Jacob "touched" are originally on flight 815 but have no connection to one another.

The LA X flight never was supposed to crash on the island. No "event" caused the crash to happen because it never did.

Because of Jacob's decision that these people are "candidates", at some point he travels to the past and touches them in order to get them onto the island. This alters the LA X timeline at the point in the flight in which the crash occurs.

Due to the unique time properties of the island, as events occur on the island between our Losties, their pasts (the LA X, unaltered timeline) are altered as well. What we've seen in flashbacks since Season 1 is not what led the Losties to the island, the flashbacks are a result of what occurs because they are there.

This would throw a complete wrench into what we've thought we were watching from the start.

LA X is not an altered timeline, it is the original one. The flashbacks are the altered timeline.

Which one will emerge as the "winner"?

Jason said...

This also fits into the "fate versus free will" idea.

Jacob represents fate. It is their destiny to be there. He weaves his tapestry and affects their lives without their consent.

MIB represent free will. Jacob had no right to choose these people and alter their realities. They should have been given a choice. Like the choice to leave the island if one so desires.

Anonymous said...

Jason/Mike,

I think it may be fallacious to claim that Esau stands for free will/choice. After all, what kind of a choice is "you may choose to leave the island and get everything you ever wanted or stay and I'll kill you"? Assuming he is also the Alex apparition, if not the Christian Shepard and Ben's mother apparitions, and also potentially the being sending dreams to Locke and before that Ben ("I used to have dreams", Cabin Fever) we know his modus operandum is by preying upon people's emotional soft spots and desires to believe. He says explicitly in the season opener that he used Locke for Locke's belief that the island was special. Similarly, Ben has been guided by some entity but it's clearly not Jacob ("What about you?"). The manipulations have resulted in the Locke-Ben conflict that lead to the two wheel turnings that lead to Esau being able to manipulate Ben into killing Jacob. Even at this moment, Jacob claims that Ben has a choice, while Esau, via Alex had forced Ben to doing everything Esau, via John Locke, asks him to do with the punishment for non-compliance again being death.

I guess a question I have is do either of Jacob and Esau believe in free will? On a chessboard, a piece may have several options at a given point (or perhaps more aptly, since Locke and Walt never play chess, on a backgammon board a piece may have different ways to move for the same roll of the dice) yet at the same time that piece is still bound to a very small number of behaviors. I think this is why Jacob chooses to bring specific people to the island. The producers made a comment about the show being like a giant Rube Goldberg machine....well, I think that's kind of the idea. Jacob picks people who, based on his observations, will behave in fairly predictable ways (Jack fixes obsessively, Kate runs, Sawyer cons, Ben lies, Locke wants to believe. The specifics may not be guaranteed but the whole is predictable). He chooses them for the ways they will interact with one another, the island and also Esau. That is to say, he knows Esau will try to manipulate them and succeed in some cases, so other characters (Hurley, Lapidus, Ilana, Jack) may also play the roles of compensating for the Esau-manipulated characters. And while we have seen Jacob and Esau both intervene in the characters' paths (via touches or offered choices or instructions), this represents a minority share of the time/the characters' actions. I think most of the time, the Rube Goldberg machine is humming along with the characters, like chess pieces, movig in fairly predictable modes....which then makes me wonder, why do both Jacob and Esau appeal to choice (to Sawyer, to the temple-folk, to Ben) on rare but seemingly crucial occasions?

I thnk this leads to the question, can Jacob and Esau have a fundamental disagreement about human nature (Esau's "they come, they fight, they destroy, they corrupt" vs. Jacob's apparent faith in people) without free will being at all involved?

BU

Anonymous said...

What's so great about this theory is that it's crazy AND right.

Faithful fan

Ben said...

I don't know if this has been picked up on already yet, but how about Locke's t-shirt. In the earlier seasons of Lost, he was prominently featured wearing a white t-shirt. I've noticed in this season EsauLocke/Flocke/Locke Monster is wearing a dark/grey t-shirt. I wonder when this color change first started taking place.

Jason said...

Ben,

I could be wrong, but I think it was sometime towards the end of Season 4, when he killed the girl from the freighter.

MikeNY said...

Jason —

I dig the LA X timeline being the "original" and the idea of the flashbacks in effect editing the past is intriguing. That sort of reverse causality would create a series of causal loops — many examples of which we've already seen.

Given that the island is submerged in the LA X timeline, it seems Jacob's interventions would likewise prevent the island from sinking.

Jacob representing fate definitely fits with your scenario. Noting the points BU raises, I'd say the LA X timeline — more so than "Esau" himself — would be associated with free will. That's basically how I took your statement...

Q: Would the sideways "wooshes" likewise be showing a causal connection?



BU —

You make it clear that the fate / free will distinction is greatly a facade. Still, the pieces are as free as any of us are in our largely predictable behavior — save for the manipulation of the players.

You make me wonder if we'll learn precisely why the candidates were selected. For strategic reasons, like you suggest, sounds good.



Faithful fan —

Thanks. I definitely agree with the first part.



Ben —

Interesting. He often wears the same shirt for long periods of time. Well... they all do on the island. It could definitely be intentional (and appropriate).


Mike

Anonymous said...

Hey Mike,

What do you make of the current wobbling transition sound? First thing that comes to my mind is a spinning die or coin that has not landed on a face yet.

BU

MikeNY said...

BU —

Yeah, it's curious. Perhaps the intent is that it's non-directional, or that it presages a decision, as you sort of suggest.

Mike

RyanKY said...

I'm wondering if compatibilism figures into all this. At varying times on the show free will seems to be emphasized and yet at other times determinism seems to be the focus. At least compatibilism attempts to mate the two. Here's a reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compatibilism

RyanKY

Anonymous said...

Another mirror moment with Linus in the microwave door. All of these references can't be a coincidence.

MikeNY said...

Ryan -

Great find. I'd say not only does compatibilism fit, it's at the heart of the show. In other words, the grand answer to Lost seems to be "both" (and maybe "42").


Anon -

Thanks. I think the pattern is both real and intentional. The intended broader meaning is of course the key. :-)


Mike

Anonymous said...

im confused as to what the dialogue between hurley (jacob) and jack is... is it you speculating or a spoiler?

Jason said...

Are Widmore and MIB in cohoots? Jacob said "they are coming" at the moment he died. Did his death give MIB the ability to somehow contact Widmore? Is he MIB's choice for a replacement?

Jason said...

Or is MIB using Widmore desire to own the island as a means to trick him into being his replacement?

MikeNY said...

Anon —

Just wishful thinking.


Jason —

I think Widmore could go either way. That Jacob seemed to be looking forward to his arrival suggests he could still be on the light side.

Widmore did, however, say he brought the mercenaries to the island for the sake of allowing John to replace Ben. So it's up in the air for me.

Great call on the MiB trying to get Widmore to replace him. I could totally see that happening. He does seem, after all, very similar to Ben in his power-lust.


Mike

Jason said...

I've been thinking....(yes, I know, congratulations!)

Is MIB actually Jacob's rival in the "game", or is it someone else? Or is there even a single rival at all?

I'm starting to see Smokey as more of a security system for the island designed to "course correct" and protect all of Jacob's candidates. A "Cerberus" if you will. This kind of ties into my idea earlier about the Swan being designed to mimic the island and perform experiments regarding its nature. Remember the map of the "Cerberus vents" on the door?

It seems that almost every one of Smokey's direct victims had a role in changing something crucial about or being a physical threat to one of the candidates. There are quite a few of his victims that fit this mold.

Is he trapped on the island as long as at least one of them remains alive? (as per your March 2nd post)

MikeNY said...

Jason —

He could be a protector, but my gut tells me he'll try to have the candidates kill each other.

If he's pissed at someone more than Jacob, I'd guess it'd be whomever he blames for sticking him in the role in the first place. Mommy or Daddy, maybe?

Mike

Anonymous said...

I get why Aaron and JiYeon could be on opposite sides but I don't get why you think they'll be on good terms. If Aaron is taken isn't he evil?
Thanks,
Jan

MikeNY said...

Jan —

The idea is actually rooted in an old, unsubstantiated rumor and a now defunct S5 spoiler (link — be forewarned, it's still a spoiler; the rumor is more specific but I can't find it).

Mike

Jason said...

Is it possible that Adam and Eve will be the remains of Jacob's replacement(female)and MIB/Locke?

Or does Jacob choose a male and MIB eventually take the form of one of the female characters?

Jason said...

The stones in the pockets really makes me think something like this is true.

MikeNY said...

Jason —

At this point I think they're either a very special pairing... like the replacements... or just Rose and Bernard. Interestingly, the traditional associations are yin/dark/female and yang/light/male. Jacob's role strikes me as more feminine, and the MiB's more masculine.

Mike

Jason said...

The scene where Kate crashed the blue car into Sawyer's car.....

When the camera hits a shot above Kate for just a split second....

Did you see smoke trailing behind her?

Am I seeing things?

Jason said...

Also...

Could we be watching the longest "long con" in history?

If so, who is running it? Jacob? MIB? someone else?

Who is the one person who wants to get off the island as much, of not more than MIB?

MikeNY said...

Jason —

:-) No idea about the smoke trail. I'll look if I watch it again.

Are you thinking Jacob is the bigger baddy?

Mike

Anonymous said...

Mike,
I was a big fan around the start of S4. Glad to see you've kept this up. With all of the mirror and light-dark action it looks like you could drive this puppy across the finish line. :-)

Brad

MikeNY said...

Brad —

Thanks for the vote of confidence. Then again, it's still a long shot.

Feel free to chime in if/when you return.

Mike

Jason said...

Are we witnessing a panopticon governed by Jacob and policed by
MIB?

A panopticon is a building designed by philosopher Jeremy Bentham in 1785 that allows an observer to observe all prisoners without them being able to tell if they are being watched, conveying a sentiment of invisible omniscience (Jacob?)

"Here's a situation, introduced by circumstance. Let's see how each individual responds to such circumstance."

"MIB, you will govern these circumstances, and eliminate the prisoners when they are no longer useful."

"I will record and categorize (by numbers) the individuals and the results of these circumstances."

"The purpose of these experiments is to find the one individual with the ability to take my place when I am gone. They will responsible for continuing my work."

Jason said...

Remember the Dharma station where they recorded the results of watching people who didn't know they were being watched?

Now that the warden is dead, are the inmates running the asylum?

MikeNY said...

Jason —

A panopticon seems to nicely capture Jacob's work in the lighthouse... and the "work" in the Pearl as well. Though, I'd hesitate to say the MiB is cooperating with him.

Jason said...

Not saying he's cooperating with him, more like his employee (one who doesn't get paid and can't leave lol). I think if you go back and watch what happens just about every time an apparition shows up, you will see what I mean. It's almost like MIB is there to introduce a different circumstance and witness a response.

I'm not completely sure, but I think this would be a great twist. The island is just one big experiment by a benevolent being, who happens to have a smoke monster pet who "polices" what happens with the "test subjects".

I think all the Dharma work was to imitate the island in order to understand and take advantage of its properties. Did Dharma have MIB and/or Jacob contained at one point?

MikeNY said...

Jason —

Interesting take.

I agree the MiB likes to test people, though the impression I have so far is that its strictly on behalf of himself. The sort of giant machine scenario would be a fascinating direction.

Anonymous said...

I was like didn't he just say that?

"The infection by darkness might be an analog to what could occur if the monster is allowed to move to Earth (assuming that's his intent). The light side presence (Jacob and his predecessors and replacements) keep the chief carrier of darkness isolated on the island and the passageway for the spread of darkness to light plugged. [Cool: Jacob's Creek hits on similar notions here.] I assume the light side must be extinguished from the island before the monster can leave. Curiously, all things here assumed, that would make the dark side of the universe evil in nature."

You nailed it, Mike.

- Bruce (loooong-time reader)

Jenny A. said...

"Ab Aeterno"- fantastic episode. Thematic touches (literally): Ilana's right eye through the bandages; Richard facing Smokey & the camera focuses on his right eye (awesome scene); Man in Black administers a healing touch w/his left hand to Richard; the white stone; keeping the darkness where it belongs.

Good work, MikeNY!! :) Jenny A., Portland

MikeNY said...

Bruce and Jenny —

Thanks. Appreciated. Intriguing catch re: the hand, Jenny. I'll have to watch again.

Anonymous said...

Mike,

LOL. They basically confirm another tenet (light/dark nexus) and you're so nonchalant. What does it take to get you excited? :-)

Allison

MikeNY said...

Allison —

LOL. Fair enough. :-)

Anonymous said...

Hey Mike,

If I'm interpreting your diagram correctly, I think it resonates with a thought I had during a discussion a few weeks ago as an expansion of my crash reality = jacob's reality, mirror reality = esau's reality thought:

What if the mirror and crash realities together form a yin-yang, with the dominant color showing the dominant side and the contained dot representing the confined opponent (Jacob dominates crash reality while MIB is trapped/has lost his true embodiment; conversely, in MIB's reality Jacob is dead/trapped and perhaps relying upon his (sole?) representative Jack to fight his battles). Until last night's episode, I figured this idea was elegant but unlikely; now it seems a little more likely.

Of course, the more interesting question (as pointed out by your diagram) concerns the possibilities for the interactions of the yin and yang worlds and the resulting outcomes.

BU

Anonymous said...

Not to belabor small points that may be obvious but do you agree that seems safe to say that:
(a) Jacob was positive that he was going to die since he described the 4/8/15/16/23/42 candidates as the last 6, with the connotation that he would not have time to bring in any more?
(b) passing the white rock to Esau via RA indicates that the cave with the balance is at the most a neutral location, but more likely an Esau location? The names on the wall would be the "scratchpad" someone suggested either here or at EyeMSick where Esau works out his best guesses at the candidates and then tracks their candidacy status.
(c) The first Isabella apparition is Esau even though it is largely synchronous with another smoke monster arrival, much as MIB used the forms of smoke monster, Alex and Locke in rapid succession to manipulate Ben?
(d) The second Isabella apparition is truly Isabella's ghost? In this instance she seems to be appearing in a way that serves Jacob's side, i.e. salvation of Richard's soul. Are both Jacob and Esau able to commune with the dead via the island?

What do you think stopped Esau from killing after he had whittled down the rest of the crew? Psychologically probing him for his strengths and weaknesses, ability to be manipulated? Whether he had experienced a major loss (Isabella) that could be dangled as a carrot to test his corruptibility?

BU

MikeNY said...

BU -

That's fucking brilliant. I've obviously been veering toward the merge (crash) vs sealed (no-crash) scenario, but you offer a great way to better maintain the yin-yang relationship.

Let's assume in no-crash-land the island has "flipped" handedness and become lodged in the sea floor, but the wormhole system is still functional.

Jacob then would be desparate to escape through a wormhole (underwater) and infect the dark side with lightness, and the MiB would work to prevent this. Thankfully this is largely symbolic, because there wouldn't be much of a destination if the island is on our side.

Sound like a reasonable start?


A. Yes, provided he isn't limited to 360 for some nonsensical reason.

B. Sounds good.

C. Definitely, despite the synchrony.

D. Actually her ghost, yes. But I'm not confident Jacob can communicate with them. They could merely be less enslaved by time and space and thus more aware of the situation.

Frankly, I think nothing really stopped him save for the fact that Richard is an established character.

Anonymous said...

I'm really just dying to see how this Sideways world plays out and whether there is gong to be some major action or conflict (which would be necessary for the twin worlds as embodiment of yin-yang thought to hold water) or whether it just acts as a what-if mirror. I really have no good guesses as to how this would play out, I need more evidence from the show...but what you're suggesting sounds good to me.


Thinking more about Alpert and the smoke monster's initial meeting - it seems to hearken to Eko's and Locke's respective first encounters. We know that all three men were broken men with open wounds from their pasts, which made them readily manipulable (Esau has said as much for Locke's case). What I had assumed for a long time is that Eko was killed because he was guilty. this would have fit in with the notion of the smoke monster as an impartial arbiter/security system, which we now know to be invalid. it now seems to me that the smoke monster killed Ekofor the very reason that Eko stood firm in his beliefs - "I have not sinned. I only did what I need to survive" - that he stood fast in his morality and therefore no longer had any value to Esau as a pawn.

BU

MikeNY said...

BU —

No value, yes. Likewise, "Esau" probably has little compunction about kicking those he deems morally bankrupt.

Anonymous said...

Mike,
Didn't you send this to the USA Today theory contest?

JM

MikeNY said...

JM —

Long-time reader? ;-)

I did, but it was never published.

MikeNY said...

JM —

Ahah, now I get it. Saw the notes for the podcast...

Well, we can dream, right?

RyanKY said...

Props to you Mike for your latest update and to BU for his recent insight. Keep it up.

Anonymous said...

Wow!!!

The only thing left is for them to say the island is dark matter.

Props to Mike and everyone who has supported this over the last few years.

Erin

MikeNY said...

Ryan —

Thanks. Glad you like it.


Erin —

Thanks. Appreciated. Though I'm not counting my chickens yet, so to speak...

Anonymous said...

That backstory, Mar. 25, sounds just about perfect.

Bruce

MikeNY said...

Bruce —

Thanks.

Laura said...

I found your blog yesterday after searching on Google for something about "mirror theory". It was referenced on the last episode of Flash Forward. The character Lloyd writes his formula on a mirror. It got me wondering if the writers were intentionally dropping a few Lost clues into the episode to create some interest in one of their Lost replacement efforts (as if!) There was also a line about things going sideways that caught my ear. Anyway, great theory! I can't wait to see how this all works out! L in Boston

MikeNY said...

Laura —

Thanks. Unfortunately, I stopped watching Flash Forward. But maybe I'll catch that clip. It's definitely exciting to see how they connect the dots.

Joe said...

Unrelated but not completely irrelevant.

"Magnetism Can Sway Man's Moral Compass"
http://science.slashdot.org/story/10/03/30/1741224/Magnetism-Can-Sway-Mans-Moral-Compass

Being the Lost nerd that I am, I immediately thought of Lost when reading this article.

MikeNY said...

Joe —

Thanks. I caught it in the news, and I think it's fascinating stuff.

Anonymous said...

idea 1: show as klein bottle

idea 2: show as infinity sign...or rather than strict infinity sign which is torus with a twist, maybe two loops with a point of tangency (@ the incident) - riffing off earlier yin-yang thought ... one loop is dark, one loop is light. but both can feed into each other/themselves (this may not be too different from wayne@EyeMSick's pocket universe if the pocket universe is a small loop next to the primary big loop). what makes me say this is mikhail's eye injury....one of the most exciting moments in the episode, and raises the question: are there merely close parallels with similar fates for individuals (mikhail is always blinded), or are some of the people from sideways somehow fed/imported into the crash timeline.

more importantly this idea of the connectedness (topologically speaking) of the two timelines...
(a)
would suggest that what we have been seeing as parallel timelines are not truly parallel/independent (which works well with the whole duality & interdependence themes) that presumably split at a single fork in the road (incident) and hence
(b)
would explain why the producers do not call it an "alternate" per se

presumably desmond is there because he is special/he can time travel in his consciousness rather than with his physical self...but is he also a bridge between the two "worlds"/"timelines"? is he this bridge not through some special new power but simply by virtue of the same consciousness-jumping he was always doing, except by traveling along the double-loop timeline?

presumably (#2) the whole point of the conflict would be to emerge from this loop/double loop chronology and get to the "it only ends once" point.

BU

Jason said...

Is Desmond the package? Why would Widmore want to show Desmond to Jin? Would it even mean anything or be surprising or revealing to Jin?

Something's amiss.

Anonymous said...

jason - this may be getting silly but...given that desmond and jin don't know each other, what if desmond can go across and find out what jin's fate is like on the other side and relay that to jin on this side??

BU

Jason said...

I'm just not sure why Widmore would be so keen to show Jin what the "package" is if it's only Desmond. I thought it would at least pertain to Jin personally, or explain something big about the island, or have something to do with getting off the island.

MikeNY said...

BU —

Each "reality" in a sense begetting the "other" is a pretty cool thought.

Perhaps that kind of exotic topological description is being used by TPTB to organize their thoughts. It would be quite wild if they actually introduced the concept... similarly wild to mirror matter. Let's hope for both.

The realities need to interact or at least be sharply contrastive. Oddly, it's slipped my mind until now that the realities might be meant to interact like matter and mirror matter: weakly and almost undetectably.


Jason —

Agreed, why so eager to have him meet up with Jin?

Desmond was pretty underwhelming... though his return was expected after Eloise's comment in the Lamp Post. I think the point must be to exploit his free-of-time-and-space abilities, perhaps like BU suggests.

Jason said...

There can be no positive without a negative. There can be no light without darkness. There can be no yin without a yang. Duality is the glue that binds existence together. There is no such thing as a single sided coin.

If MIB escapes, will he be the cause of the destruction himself? Or will the separation of two equal but opposing forces cause the world to "simply cease to exist"?

Are Jacob and MIB not simply beings with supernatural powers that represent duality?

Are they duality itself?

MikeNY said...

Jason —

I think you're on the money with duality.

And I bet you're on to something with the breaking of dual-form (in some way) that causes the annihilation. Recall that Damon said they "personify" the black and white sides.

The impression I get so far from the dialog is that it's the MiB crossing over to our world (the act of leaving the island) that's the trigger to the badness. So that would be Yin violating the realm of pure Yang, or what have you.

Jason said...

The words that strike me the most are "the world would simply cease to exist."

Not "MIB will destroy the world." It makes me think that once Yin and Yang separate, the laws that bind our world will cease, thus ending the existence of everything.

MikeNY said...

Jason —

The Big Poof!

That works for me...

Jason said...

Mike,

About your Apr 3rd comment. When MIB says he needs all of the remaining candidates with him to leave the island, it reminds me of Ms. Hawking needing all of them to be on the Ajira plane. She said something like "the circumstances need to be exactly like those of the first flight".

Could this be a reason why he needs those exact people?

MikeNY said...

Jason —

You could very well be right. Maybe he'll pull Christian's body out of storage and plunk him down in the cargo hold.

Jason said...

Do they all have something they want to return to? Something they have lost? Did the bomb change what happened in the events on the island that we've watched so far? Or did the bomb change the "alternate" timeline we are watching now into what we've been watching all along?

MikeNY said...

Jason —

Good questions. I'm sure Eloise is eager to keep her son... If everything that happened, happened, it might be that neither universe is the primary one — there have always been two.

Jason said...

Is it safe to say that Widmore and Hawking want the alternate universe to "win"? They both lose their son, Widmore loses his daughter and grandson (assuming Penny and Des end up together in the "ATL"".

Have their actions throughout the show been geared toward returning, or causing, the alternate timeline to exist?

MikeNY said...

Jason —

Sounds good. Though they were willing to make sacrifices in the crash universe, so it's hard to be certain about that.

Jason said...

The sacrifices in the crash universe seem to lead to the no-crash universe don't they?

Also, about what Jacob said to Jack about "making a choice".

Is Jack to be the one who ultimately decides what happens to the island and which "universe" remains?

Joe said...

So here is a snapshot from LA X earlier this season:

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/4080/vlcsnap2010040714h13m53.png

My question: Is the wedding ring on Desmond's finger deliberate? Or is it simply a blooper?

Anonymous said...

This is amazing!!

So I get that the "moon" is on the dark side. What's your opinion on the two realities? Are they yin and yang? I think it's great that they have mirrors playing such a big role, but I'm still really confused about why they have two realities. . .

M.L.

Anonymous said...

Mike, some cool new evidence:

http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/2010/04/episode-6x11-dark-v-light-two-different.html

MikeNY said...

Jason —

That'd be pretty cool if Jack's choice is in fact between the worlds. I'm on the fence at the moment about which world is better, or which might be left standing (if not both).


Joe —

Thanks. That's strange and interesting. Maybe he already had some inkling of his other life?


M.L. —

Confused? Yeah, you're not alone. :-)
I was thinking from a narrative standpoint, it lets them kill off all or nearly all of the main characters, and yet not piss off the audience by keeping their "alternates" alive. But I have less confidence in that after "Happily Ever After."


Anon —

Thanks. Good stuff. Funny — those appeared in spoilers earlier, and I completely ignored them in the episode.

Jason said...

I would think that if crash-reality Jack finds out he's got a son in the no-crash-reality, he'd choose the latter.

Can't wait to find out.

MikeNY said...

Jason —

Indeed. If death on the island allows a transfer of sorts, the MiB might be counting on that lure (assuming he's aware of the realities).

Anonymous said...

This is interesting....origins of Dharma?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharmak%C4%81ya

MikeNY said...

Anon —

Thanks. Yeah, I'll bet they're pretty aware of the Buddhist background to the DI. Of course, they weren't exactly a religious group...

Anonymous said...

Amazing theory!!

What do you think about the kid with the hair (I swear its Jacob) changing from blond to brown?

Steve

Jason said...

I think they're different kids. One is Jacob and the other is MIB, and are brothers.

MikeNY said...

Steve —

Yeah, it did look brown... I mean, I guess it fits the light/dark motif, but it's still pretty odd.


Jason —

They could be twins. But they're the same actor — I saw screencaps side by side. If it is the MiB, he must've changed his appearance...

Joe said...

Hey all,

Does the detonation of the bomb in 1977 alter the course of time BEFORE 1977 in addition to after?

Strange question I agree, but here is some (convoluted?) logic behind the question.

If the bomb detonates in 1977, the plane doesn't crash. The survivors and freighter folk don't travel back in time hopping between pre 1954 (statue not destroyed, well not dug), 1974, and the future. If the island-group isn't time-travelling, Locke doesn't spin the wheel (presumably in the past because again, the well hasn't been dug yet).

So detonating the bomb in 1977 prevents Locke from moving the island in the past. This might suggest that detonating the bomb in 1977 changes time all the way back to whenever it is John Locke spun the wheel.

I was wondering why Dr Chang doesn't remember Hurley from 1977 when he was handing him an achievement award. But then I realized we don't know if Chang recognizes him or not.

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